400 to 600 PD options?

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Lefty,..
I really LIKE my 6 XC and would buy another Barrel for, the SAME Cart ( Tubb, Version One, Norma Brass ) again.
My RemAge, Criterion Heavy Sporter, 1-7.5 TW, Shoots, the 107 SMK's, the Berger 80 gr FB Varmints to the 95's,.. very well ! I use, the very Accurate, 95 gr. Classic Hunter Berger's for the Longer Distances, @ Sage Rats in my 6XC, as they have a descent sized HP, that cuts Sage rats, in Half or,.. nastier.
I tried the 87 gr V-Maxes, but SADLY, they were NOT consistent enough, in My Barrel.

 

[Lefty2506]

@ Lefty,..
I really LIKE my 6 XC and would buy another Barrel for, the SAME Cart ( Tubb, Version One, Norma Brass ) again.
My RemAge, Criterion Heavy Sporter, 1-7.5 TW, Shoots, the 107 SMK's, the Berger 80 gr FB Varmints to the 95's,.. very well ! I use, the very Accurate, 95 gr. Classic Hunter Berger's for the Longer Distances, @ Sage Rats in my 6XC, as they have a descent sized HP, that cuts Sage rats, in Half or,.. nastier.
I tried the 87 gr V-Maxes, but SADLY, they were NOT consistent enough, in My Barrel.

I plugged numbers in for some (6mm) 87gr and 90gr bullets running around 3200 fps, and there wasn't 2" difference with what I'd get with a 223 and a 75gr at 700 yds. That said, it seems like with 6mm cartridges (6br, 6xc, 6x47) its a a LOT easier to find multiple loads that are tack drivers where as with a .223 its more of a challenge to find a really accurate load that will push a 75gr ELD in the 3000 fps range. Even at 500 yds, a gun that shoots MOA from a solid bench rest isn't going to cut it even on a calm day. The only experience I have with cartridges like these is my 6.5 Grendel. It has been the easiest cartridge I've ever loaded for, and my assumption is that the 6BR, 6 Dasher, and 6XC would be similar in that regard. I feel like my chances of eventually rebarreling my Savage and ending up with another 1/4 moa 75gr load is a roll of the dice at best. The accuracy potential is probably the thing that interests me most about these recommendations. Realistically, knowing that the 6xc is a proven performer even at 1k is enough for me to want one whether it ever draws blood or not

 

[urbanrifleman]

I plugged numbers in for some (6mm) 87gr and 90gr bullets running around 3200 fps, and there wasn't 2" difference with what I'd get with a 223 and a 75gr at 700 yds. That said, it seems like with 6mm cartridges (6br, 6xc, 6x47) its a a LOT easier to find multiple loads that are tack drivers where as with a .223 its more of a challenge to find a really accurate load that will push a 75gr ELD in the 3000 fps range. Even at 500 yds, a gun that shoots MOA from a solid bench rest isn't going to cut it even on a calm day. The only experience I have with cartridges like these is my 6.5 Grendel. It has been the easiest cartridge I've ever loaded for, and my assumption is that the 6BR, 6 Dasher, and 6XC would be similar in that regard. I feel like my chances of eventually rebarreling my Savage and ending up with another 1/4 moa 75gr load is a roll of the dice at best. The accuracy potential is probably the thing that interests me most about these recommendations. Realistically, knowing that the 6xc is a proven performer even at 1k is enough for me to want one whether it ever draws blood or not

Run a 75 ELDM at 3350

87 VMAX at 3200


75 ELDM at 3350

 

[urbanrifleman]

Just for grins I did a 6mm 75 VMAX at 3350 fps.



Compare to 75 ELDM in 22 at 3350.

 

[urbanrifleman]

6 Dasher at 3050 with Hornady 108 ELDx at one mile.

 

[Lefty2506]

Just for grins I did a 6mm 75 VMAX at 3350 fps.

View attachment 1481927

Compare to 75 ELDM in 22 at 3350.

View attachment 1481928

I ran those also. Basically a 22-250 would be about 9" less drop at 700 yds, but would have about 2" more drift than a 105gr from a 6xc. If I dropped the 6xc down to a 90gr, then I can nearly duplicate it with a 75gr eld from a 223 with a 26" barrel which is what my Savage has. There's literally no measurable difference except that the 6xc is probably easier to load for with regards to accuracy. I still want one, but this has really made me stop and consider what benefit I'm getting for the time and money invested. Oddly enough, when I search for load/velocity info for various 22 cartridges and a 75gr bullet, I have to step up to a noticeably bigger cace to be able to push the 75 or 80gr noticeably faster than I can with my 223 Savage, which means I'd be looking at a barrel burner. Basically, an accurate heavy 26" 223 barrel with a 75gr eld is hard to beat by a significant amount without sacrificing a lot of barrel life.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I ran those also. Basically a 22-250 would be about 9" less drop at 700 yds, but would have about 2" more drift than a 105gr from a 6xc. If I dropped the 6xc down to a 90gr, then I can nearly duplicate it with a 75gr eld from a 223 with a 26" barrel which is what my Savage has. There's literally no measurable difference except that the 6xc is probably easier to load for with regards to accuracy. I still want one, but this has really made me stop and consider what benefit I'm getting for the time and money invested. Oddly enough, when I search for load/velocity info for various 22 cartridges and a 75gr bullet, I have to step up to a noticeably bigger cace to be able to push the 75 or 80gr noticeably faster than I can with my 223 Savage, which means I'd be looking at a barrel burner. Basically, an accurate heavy 26" 223 barrel with a 75gr eld is hard to beat by a significant amount without sacrificing a lot of barrel life.

I keep hearing everybody say this cartridge or that cartridge are "barrel burners". I haven't really noticed these comments to be true. Considering a reasonable barrel life I don't see much difference between a 22XC and a 6XC. Certainly not enough for one to say one is a "barrel burner" and the other isn't.

I guess I would say that you really can't compare any of the other cartridges to the 223. Because it will give you such incredible barrel life.

I offer barrels that are affordable. My motto is my barrels are like Doritos. "Shoot all you want, we'll make more.". If one were worried about barrel life, I would suggest to stop spending so much on barrels.

And there are things that can be done to extend barrel life. Shoot a single Tubb TMS bullet every hundred rounds for example. This really works.

I have to admit I'm very confused by a discussion where people are saying they want to be able to shoot prairie dogs at 600 to 1000 yards with very low BC varmint bullets, and then claim barrel life will effect accuracy.

The 6xc with the Hornady 103 ELDx (HORNADY expansion hunting bullet) would be a legitimate choice. But I would probably suggest the 88 ELDM simply due to bullet cost, which would be HALF.

Hrndy Eld-x 6mm .243 103gr 100ct

Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories

theurbanriflemanstore.com

If a person were to shoot the 75 or 87 vmax (I never got the 87 to shoot myself) out to effective range and then switch to the 103 ELDx further out, a 6xc would be a wonderful choice.

My customers prefer the 75 ELDM for pdogs. It just works. If a person really wants to stretch out switch the 88 ELdM.

My last advice would be to get a barrel and go shoot. Just see if it "burns up". I think this is a bunch of hooey. I've shot my 243s on dog towns in 105 degree weather shooting as fast as I wanted. Never took a break. Barrels were fine. I've heard people claim they burned up a 223 AR15 barrel in "500 rounds" shooting pdogs. I guess they never did much sitting rapids practice.

I'm very skeptical of the "burned up barrels" claims.

 

[alf]

How come you don't see any 223 's, 6 or 6.5 CM's, or 6XC's at any 600 or 1K BR matches?

 

[Forum Boss]

I would consider the 22 BR or 22 BRA. With a friend's rifle I shot a 22 BR in the Pala varmint silhouette match, with targets out to 585 yards, and it performed great. Very accurate and quite flat shooting. Bullets will be cheaper than 6mm, with somewhat less recoil. I do believe barrel life might be higher with 6mm however.

 

[urbanrifleman]

How come you don't see any 223 's, 6 or 6.5 CM's, or 6XC's at any 600 or 1K BR matches?

One of my customers was winning the Colorado Regionals in 600 yard BR with one of my 6xc barrels. Until his prosthetic leg malfunctioned. Lead for 2 days. Agged 2.25 inches in high winds.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would consider the 22 BR or 22 BRA. With a friend's rifle I shot a 22 BR in the Pala varmint silhouette match, with targets out to 585 yards, and it performed great. Very accurate and quite flat shooting. Bullets will be cheaper than 6mm, with somewhat less recoil. I do believe barrel life might be higher with 6mm however.

View attachment 1482110
View attachment 1482111

In general I would agree. But I recommend the 22xc because of the current brass availability situation (and price---considering the volume required for pdog shooting).


The 22bra and 22xc will shoot the same node.

 

[JSH]

A lot of good input here for sure, from many angles.

The “other” sources of 6BR brass, curious if there is as big a difference as lead to believe. I for one will admit to finding “magic”, then have that become hard to get, unobtainable or discontinued, then have no faith and deem it a failure from the start. Subconscious thoughts are hard to get around.

Prairie dog targets, save your TP rolls. If you can hit one of those your in business.
On stubborn/stupid ones way out there hitting right and left and high, I tend to cheat and go low and either skip one in and make a hit, or the shrapnel will make them do Aerobics.

 

[alf]

One of my customers was winning the Colorado Regionals in 600 yard BR with one of my 6xc barrels. Until his prosthetic leg malfunctioned. Lead for 2 days. Agged 2.25 inches in high winds.

One guy isn't a trend.....

 

[urbanrifleman]

One guy isn't a trend.....

I honestly don't care.

 

[alf]

I honestly don't care.

Obviously.....

 

[Daddycaddie67]

These are my personal rifles. I'm very familiar with this setup.

View attachment 1481520View attachment 1481521

What is that bipod?

 

[urbanrifleman]

What is that bipod?

Tubb.

 

[dusterdave173]

This is all very interesting--I was able to get my 7 twist Urban223 barrel to Really sling the 53 Vmax--That bullet was great in strong wind--it whacked PD's out to about 540 It was a chipshot inside 350 to 400 It did great! But i ordered that barrel to shoot the 85.5 Bergers for "bragging" shots--It was astonishing what that little ole 223 load would do in stiff winds at 600 Plus on PD's with that 85.5-- Long shot was three off one mound with about 6 shots at over 660 yds- I gave one a haircut at 1120 yards--one inch lower and I could really be smiling-But I just got a 6BR Savage because I think I can do longer shots with it that I can't do with my taxed out 223 Bullet math aside I am convinced it is the ticket and easy button for the task. The way I would use it on a PD day is 75% 223 inside 500 and 25% 6BR for longer all the way out to as far as I can see one---That way the barrel last just fine---It is like a bag of golf clubs--The 223 is the irons and the 6Br is the driver
and...I can use the 6BR for local matches also extending the range of fun
Hot rod 22's are intriguing and stats say the cool deal but the way I am planning I only have to load two different cartridges ( with a variety of bullet weights) for everything I want to do

 

[DRK]

I run a 22-250 improved, 6x47 L, & 6 TCU for all varmints, coyotes, wood chucks, pdogs if I ever get out west.

22-250 improved, 77 gr SMK or 6x47 L, 107 gr SMK are my choice for anything over 300 yds. Inside of 300 yds I run the 6 TCU, 70 gr Nosler BTs or Sierra BK.

I run Lapua & Pedersen brass in the 6x47 L. Buy once, cry once. I will be surprised if I don't burn out both barrels I have for the 6x47 L before I junk the brass I have for it.

 

[alf]

This is all very interesting--I was able to get my 7 twist Urban223 barrel to Really sling the 53 Vmax--That bullet was great in strong wind--it whacked PD's out to about 540 It was a chipshot inside 350 to 400 It did great! But i ordered that barrel to shoot the 85.5 Bergers for "bragging" shots--It was astonishing what that little ole 223 load would do in stiff winds at 600 Plus on PD's with that 85.5-- Long shot was three off one mound with about 6 shots at over 660 yds- I gave one a haircut at 1120 yards--one inch lower and I could really be smiling-But I just got a 6BR Savage because I think I can do longer shots with it that I can't do with my taxed out 223 Bullet math aside I am convinced it is the ticket and easy button for the task. The way I would use it on a PD day is 75% 223 inside 500 and 25% 6BR for longer all the way out to as far as I can see one---That way the barrel last just fine---It is like a bag of golf clubs--The 223 is the irons and the 6Br is the driver
and...I can use the 6BR for local matches also extending the range of fun
Hot rod 22's are intriguing and stats say the cool deal but the way I am planning I only have to load two different cartridges ( with a variety of bullet weights) for everything I want to do

I've shot PD's for a long time, and have come to almost the same conclusion.

I've settled on the regular 223 for the heavy lifting, and a 6 Dasher for the rest.