Savage FTR .223 questions

[Jeff Porter]

Preface: I have been a sling shooter all my life and have never shot a match from a bench or with a bipod. The dark side has knocked and I opened the door.

I recently came into a Savage 12 FTR -223 rifle with a Vortex Golden Eagle scope and what I believe is a Rifle Basix trigger.

? Does anyone know what chamber is in the factory barrel ? seems to be a straight .223 with a throat shorter than a Wylde.

?? Does running a uni throat to seat heavier bullets usually work well? or just get a new barrel? barrels are easy to change but this one seems to shoot well so...??


I have a Warne Skyline bipod and a Caldwell bunny ear rear bag. definitley need to up my accessory game.

I measured the chamber and had some Berger 80.5 loads from my Service Rifle that would fit and run about 0.010" jump. I was tied up today so i sent the rifle to the 100 yard range with my friend @sschnid. He sends me some data back - the 80.5 load is running 2950 fps in the 30" bolt gun with SD of 5-11 in three strings.

First 5 shot group - not too shabby - 0.3 MOA



Scott then ran a 10 shot string with another batch set at 0.030" off.



Load development seems to be off to a good start.

 

[JBT47]

I will assume this rifle has 1-7” twist (or at least advertised by Savage as having 1-7” twist). If so do you ever intend to try shooting the 90’s? If yes then the throat should be lengthened substantially. Most guys shooting 90’s are using a 1-7” twist or faster barrel throated to about .169” with the ISSF reamer. Some are throating longer than that. @Ned Ludd has very extensive experience with .223 and the heavy bullets so maybe he will chime in.

 

[Stumpy1]

Jeff,

With the proper bore bushing, the uni-throater works really, really well.
You just need to sneak up on your finished throat length -you aren't removing much material at all.

If you were closer, I could hook you up in about 1/2 hour.

Frank

 

[Jeff Porter]

I will assume this rifle has 1-7” twist (or at least advertised by Savage as having 1-7” twist). If so do you ever intend to try shooting the 90’s? If yes then the throat should be lengthened substantially. Most guys shooting 90’s are using a 1-7” twist or faster barrel throated to about .169” with the ISSF reamer. Some are throating longer than that. @Ned Ludd has very extensive experience with .223 and the heavy bullets so maybe he will chime in.

Thanks for the response. Yes I intend to move up to 90 or 88 ELDM’s. I have a Palma rifle with an 1:7 Bartlein and the throat is about 0.130” longer in that than the Savage. It shoots the 90’s very well too.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Jeff,

With the proper bore bushing, the uni-throater works really, really well.
You just need to sneak up on your finished throat length -you aren't removing much material at all.

If you were closer, I could hook you up in about 1/2 hour.

Frank

Thanks Frank. I would take you up in the offer if we were geographically compatible.

 

[DShortt]

Well, you can measure the rate of twist and do a chamber cast if you want to know specifically. Or just continue down your present course. I've seen folks with a lot more information do a lot worse on paper.

 

[Jeff Porter]

What bore bushing does the typical Savage bore take?

 

[Stumpy1]

What bore bushing does the typical Savage bore take?

That is really hard to say. They typically come in sets varying by 0.0002", it is probably some form of 0.218" bore, but you never know till you check (unfortunately).

 

[XTR]

Savage hasn’t updated that rifle or their FTR 308 since day 1, which is a shame, they have the only off the shelf options out there, and all they really need to do is get a legitimate competition reamer and they’d actually have an off the shelf competitive rifle….But they use a SAAMI reamer, it’s not like a long freebore is going to make it unsafe…just ask Weatherby. (Now that I‘ve vented that)

if you’ve got access to a uni-throater try it. I have one in 308 and in 223, and I’ve used it in both with great results. I personally dislike the accu-trigger, I replaced the one on the Savage 223 (rebarrelled and restocked) that I built for my sons to shoot in midrange.

 

[William Vogel]

Preface: I have been a sling shooter all my life and have never shot a match from a bench or with a bipod. The dark side has knocked and I opened the door.

I recently came into a Savage 12 FTR -223 rifle with a Vortex Golden Eagle scope and what I believe is a Rifle Basix trigger.

? Does anyone know what chamber is in the factory barrel ? seems to be a straight .223 with a throat shorter than a Wylde.

?? Does running a uni throat to seat heavier bullets usually work well? or just get a new barrel? barrels are easy to change but this one seems to shoot well so...??


I have a Warne Skyline bipod and a Caldwell bunny ear rear bag. definitley need to up my accessory game.

I measured the chamber and had some Berger 80.5 loads from my Service Rifle that would fit and run about 0.010" jump. I was tied up today so i sent the rifle to the 100 yard range with my friend @sschnid. He sends me some data back - the 80.5 load is running 2950 fps in the 30" bolt gun with SD of 5-11 in three strings.

First 5 shot group - not too shabby - 0.3 MOA

View attachment 1478077

Scott then ran a 10 shot string with another batch set at 0.030" off.
View attachment 1478078


Load development seems to be off to a good start.

Rent the precision throater from 4D Reamer Rentals. It comes with a T handle and a stop collar that is adjustable in .005 increments. I’ve used it on two of my 223 rifles and it’s easy and precise. It also changes the lead angle to 1degree 30minutes. Because it could change your lead angle, you need to carefully check your cut and bullet seating depth as you begin to cut. A bore scope helps. Also after break in the bullet jam measurement of my rifles increased about .008- .010 from being cut.

 

[danny]

Preface: I have been a sling shooter all my life and have never shot a match from a bench or with a bipod. The dark side has knocked and I opened the door.

I recently came into a Savage 12 FTR -223 rifle with a Vortex Golden Eagle scope and what I believe is a Rifle Basix trigger.

? Does anyone know what chamber is in the factory barrel ? seems to be a straight .223 with a throat shorter than a Wylde.

?? Does running a uni throat to seat heavier bullets usually work well? or just get a new barrel? barrels are easy to change but this one seems to shoot well so...??


I have a Warne Skyline bipod and a Caldwell bunny ear rear bag. definitley need to up my accessory game.

I measured the chamber and had some Berger 80.5 loads from my Service Rifle that would fit and run about 0.010" jump. I was tied up today so i sent the rifle to the 100 yard range with my friend @sschnid. He sends me some data back - the 80.5 load is running 2950 fps in the 30" bolt gun with SD of 5-11 in three strings.

First 5 shot group - not too shabby - 0.3 MOA

View attachment 1478077

Scott then ran a 10 shot string with another batch set at 0.030" off.
View attachment 1478078


Load development seems to be off to a good start.

I am sorry to see that you are giving up Highpower.

Danny

 

[Jeff Porter]

I am sorry to see that you are giving up Highpower.

Danny

Not giving up. Just dabbling with the FTR game.

 

[danny]

Not giving up. Just dabbling with the FTR game.

Ok, great. Don't stay away from Highpower for too long.

Danny

 

[DShortt]

Rent the precision throater from 4D Reamer Rentals. It comes with a T handle and a stop collar that is adjustable in .005 increments. I’ve used it on two of my 223 rifles and it’s easy and precise. It also changes the lead angle to 1degree 30minutes. Because it could change your lead angle, you need to carefully check your cut and bullet seating depth as you begin to cut. A bore scope helps. Also after break in the bullet jam measurement of my rifles increased about .008- .010 from being cut.

A bit off topic but I rented a reamer twice. First one was a .223Rem that left a ring in the shoulder area. Should have inspected it better before I used it.

Second was SUPPOSED to be a 300AAC but turns out it was a 300 Whisper. Yes, there is enough difference that factory ammunition won't chamber.

As a result I won't rent any more reamers and I advise against the practice going forward.

 

[jnr88]

Do a little research on the 90 grain bullets. They are not viewed very favorably. The 80.5 Bergers are the default match 223 bullet. The 69SMK is also very good at shorter distances. JMO

 

[William Vogel]

A bit off topic but I rented a reamer twice. First one was a .223Rem that left a ring in the shoulder area. Should have inspected it better before I used it.

Second was SUPPOSED to be a 300AAC but turns out it was a 300 Whisper. Yes, there is enough difference that factory ammunition won't chamber.

As a result I won't rent any more reamers and I advise against the practice going forward.

I used it on my Remington factory barrel, it’s a 9 twist. I shoot 73ELD hornady in it. After throating it to get the bullet to seat out past the neck/shoulder junction, it’s shooting through the same hole at 100 yards and less than 1/2 MOA at 700 yards. Running 2950. Best thing I’ve ever done. Made the rifle really shoot.

 

[DShortt]

I used it on my Remington factory barrel, it’s a 9 twist. I shoot 73ELD hornady in it. After throating it to get the bullet to seat out past the neck/shoulder junction, it’s shooting through the same hole at 100 yards and less than 1/2 MOA at 700 yards. Running 2950. Best thing I’ve ever done. Made the rifle really shoot.

I'm glad it worked our for you. Unfortunately my experiences were less desirable.

 

[William Vogel]

I'm glad it worked our for you. Unfortunately my experiences were less desirable.

I agree. Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Do a little research on the 90 grain bullets. They are not viewed very favorably. The 80.5 Bergers are the default match 223 bullet. The 69SMK is also very good at shorter distances. JMO

Perhaps you should do some research on the 90 gr bullets. They can be made to shoot extremely well and tuning in competitive loads is not that difficult. The OP is interested in trying F-Class; more specifically, F-TR. The 80.5 is not the "default bullet" for shooting F-TR. Someone showing up to a 600 yd (or farther) F-TR match with 80.5s is going to be at a serious disadvantage to someone running the mighty 90 VLD, Berger 85.5s, Hornady 88s, or Sierra 90s/95s, if there's any wind at all. They'll be at even more of a disadvantage against F-TR shooters using a .308 Win with 200+ gr high BC bullets. I've done well with the 80.5s in 300 yd matches, but even at that distance the heavier, higher BC bullets are beneficial to shooting winning scores when the wind comes up. I've also scored for shooters that tried using 69 SMKs in both 300 and 600 yd F-TR matches. They fared poorly against shooters using heavier, higher BC bullets.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Perhaps you should do some research on the 90 gr bullets. They can be made to shoot extremely well and tuning in competitive loads is not that difficult. The OP is interested in trying F-Class; more specifically, F-TR. The 80.5 is not the "default bullet" for shooting F-TR. Someone showing up to a 600 yd (or farther) F-TR match with 80.5s is going to be at a serious disadvantage to someone running the mighty 90 VLD, Berger 85.5s, Hornady 88s, or Sierra 90s/95s, if there's any wind at all. They'll be at even more of a disadvantage against F-TR shooters using a .308 Win with 200+ gr high BC bullets. I've done well with the 80.5s in 300 yd matches, but even at that distance the heavier, higher BC bullets are beneficial to shooting winning scores when the wind comes up. I've also scored for shooters that tried using 69 SMKs in both 300 and 600 yd F-TR matches. They fared poorly against shooters using heavier, higher BC bullets.

Yah... that was an odd comment.