Should LV and HV Classes Be Merged?

[Dusty Stevens]

Still the same today as it was then like jackie said. The aggs were the same because not many people shot the hv. You tune br guns every group so it sucks to get 3 guns shooting and only shoot 5 groups with 2 of them (ul&hv) instead of having 15 or 20 groups to get it tuned up. Most matches are hv&lv now so tuning 2 guns is harder than tuning one. Shooters in the game all agree something should change but nobody knows what to do

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Meduim weight/Varmint?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

It would be nice to not have the lv class anymore mainly because of the component costs. A winning lv stock alone is well over $1000 and the scopes get heavier all the time. SR shooters go to matches to actually shoot so the thought of going to just one or 2 classes will eliminate some shooters not add. Nothing worse than driving across the country with 100 rds and having plenty left over. The HV rifle does hide some gun handling mistakes which is why a lot of new shooters that go the HV route always agg better with it than the LV- the more experienced shooters not so much, although most dont even own a hv gun

 

[sr67]

The classes should have been simplified. The price barrier to entry is such that most who are interested look once and say no way. I belong to a pretty large club and we have 1 very competitive BR shooter... Now, F Class gets far more but nothing compared to PRS or some of the tactical classes. PRS and other disciplines are exploding but BR is absolutely not.

 

[BoydAllen]

I do not see this coming from within the sport. If you want to know about these sorts of issues, I think that conversations with match directors would be the logical way to proceed. They are the ones that make the sport possible. I think that people tend to forget this simple fact.

It is my impression that a lot of competitors shoot a LV rifle in all three bag gun classes, so there really is no problem.

IMO the biggest problems facing short range group benchrest are the expense of the sport, the demands it make on a shooter's time, and the current lack of availability of affordable stocks that are suitable for building LV rifles. Beyond these there is the overall complexity involved in getting up speed with being able to shoot at a competitive level.

It seems to me that club score matches are the way that people often are introduced to benchrest competition, and that if the goal is to increase participation in the higher levels of the sport, that creating a larger pool of shooters who are shooting at that level would make good sense.

If one can, the best way to increase participation in sanctioned benchrest matches is to take up the sport. IMO no amount of rule changing would have a significant effect on participation.

 

[Lkwebb]

I wouldn't have gotten into the sport of it wasn't for the mentoring program.
I was wanting learn more about it but didn't want to spend the money till I knew more about it etc. I was given some information to meet a mentor at a local range one morning.
When a person shoots a small group it can be addictive.
That's what sold me, yes its a rabbit hole to get started but most br shooters will lend you flags among other items till you can buy them.
The reason prs is exploding is aslong as you have a 1/2 moa gun you can compete.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

IMHO, the number one reason, among others, to go to 13.5lbs is that you open your arms to existing score shooters. They already have the equipment for HV, they're already shooting BR, and the vast majority of group shooters only use one gun. They could still use one gun at whatever weight under 13.5, so no changes needed from that side. The score shooters often have to have new builds to shoot group. Enter in the availability of matches that interconnect both group and score, I can't see a down side in terms of gaining a few shooters in group, and likely overall, in time.

Cost of either is about the same other than time and travel, so I don't think it's that simple but I do agree that match directors make the sport possible at all, as well as range availability. Score matches are simpler and faster to run. No moving backers and the range is tied up for less time. Not many younger blood can afford the time or money that it takes to stay on the road and in hotels for the number of days most bigger group matches take, with a job and families. It is what it is.

All that said...I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[Fuj]

All I'll say is.....If it were not for UBR's unlimited class and match's
like the Tack Driver, I'd still only be shooting steel match's. From
my perspective, I can't build a light gun. The components I want
to use, I play hell making 17 lbs. With a new March High Master
and one of Mike Ezell's tuners, I hit 20 lbs on this last build. I want
to thank Jim Cline For designing a match that allows my use of
boat anchors that kick......

 

[762plinker]

The classes should have been simplified. The price barrier to entry is such that most who are interested look once and say no way. I belong to a pretty large club and we have 1 very competitive BR shooter... Now, F Class gets far more but nothing compared to PRS or some of the tactical classes. PRS and other disciplines are exploding but BR is absolutely not.

each one requires less and less accuracy, less money and less shooter quality IMHO
plus age is a barrier in each

 

[762plinker]

All I'll say is.....If it were not for UBR's unlimited class and match's
like the Tack Driver, I'd still only be shooting steel match's. From
my perspective, I can't build a light gun. The components I want
to use, I play hell making 17 lbs. With a new March High Master
and one of Mike Ezell tuners, I hit 20 lbs on this last build. I want
to thank Jim Cline For designing a match that allows my use of
boat anchors that kick......

ubr is NOT BENCHREST

 

[jimmymac]

ubr is NOT BENCHREST

It most certainly is.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

ubr is NOT BENCHREST

You're absolutely wrong. Not even sure where that kinda statement comes from except a completely uninformed individual with no experience in it.

Is it the the caliber neutral aspect you don't like? Well, group is caliber neutral. In fact, it's a lot like group in that 1 bad shot doesn't take you out. You can shoot well and overcome that one shot, but it's not easy. Same with group. Is it score? Well, score, IMHO, is even tougher than group. UBR very much is benchrest...It's Ultimate Bench Rest! Great game, great shooters and people. Do they shoot this in Colorado yet? Give it a try before badmouthing something you know nothing about.

It rubs some people wrong to see an area of benchrest actually grow and succeed, I guess. It shouldn't We should all hope that BR overall grows and does well. I can think of a few National champs from other disciplines that shoot UBR, off the top of my head. To my knowledge, none have won a UBR Nats yet but they still shoot well and deserve one. One has passed on.

 

[jimmymac]

Tell this crowd of fine shooters they are not Benchrest shooters.

https://ultimatebenchrest.com/results/results-2022/national-championship-sept-9-102022

 

[762plinker]

can you tell me any other sport where the size changes the outcome ?(lets skip fishing and hunting)
football one ball bigger than the other because one team has lower ave weight ?
basketball ..one hoop is lower because the ave height of one team is shorter.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've shot under all three major BR sanctioning bodies and while some might or might not care for one game or the other, I don't know of anyone(competitors) that would seriously claim any of them aren't BR.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

can you tell me any other sport where the size changes the outcome ?(lets skip fishing and hunting)
football one ball bigger than the other because one team has lower ave weight ?
basketball ..one hoop is lower because the ave height of one team is shorter.

All forms of group are measured with consideration for bullet diameter. You are neither penalized nor do you benefit from the scoring. IBS and NBRSA Score both benefit a bigger bullet hole in the target and penalize a smaller caliber, with equal accuracy. Shoot whatever you think is your most accurate caliber/chambering without penalty...like group! Should I spell that with a capital "G"?...Group?

You don't have to like the idea, simply don't shoot it. But to claim it's unfair is both wrong and shows you're very uninformed as well as not experienced with which you are willingly badmouthing.

 

[jimmymac]

EDIT:

Post removed...I should stay in my lane, do what I do and not get involved in nonsense...

 

[Shooter13]

ubr is NOT BENCHREST

How do you figure that?

 

[Shooter13]

Didn’t you run with this same argument when you used to go by “retired”, or one of the other user names you have registered under here over the years? Tell us Mike, what compels you to do that? Could it be that you make a habit of being a shit stirrer and end up getting the boot, or slinking away on your own accord when people get tired of your nonsense and call you on it?

Please be sure to respond to this with your frequent use of capital letters to really drive home the point. That’s always a big hit with the crowd.

You have obviously never shot UBR. It is benchrest with a capital B. This organization takes a back seat to no one. If you think it’s easy, come give it a go.

Thank you, I think (that and a buck fifty will get you coffee at mickey ds) that having to move the barrel over a larger range of motion is harder. I just shot my first 500 yard match and using a very few sighters and only one aim point is so much simpler. So why don't I shoot group? Not a single match within 3-4 hours of me UBR? 3 ranges within an hour 15 minutes and the 4th 3.5 hours (Dry Branch Dixon Springs, TN) each on separate weekends!! So if I want (and wife allows) I can shoot every weekend.

 

[JEFFPPC]

So it seems ever one wants more crutches....ie... more weight, wider stocks....let's go back to shooting vs trigger pulling. If you were to do anything let's eliminate the heavy class. 10.5 pounds, learn flags, learn bench manners. One gun is all you need, make more targets in a match. Might help getting new shooters started. Too much worry about points and records. Not enough concern about saving the sport.....which is fading away.