Barrel torque vs precision?

[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks for the reply.

Tony Boyer shooting in SR BR didn't write any books on theories, but he has set a record of Hall Of Fame Points attained that will never be surpassed. His book is of more value when shooting knowledge comes into play due to his record. If you want theories buy Vaughn's book. If you want the real world of SR BR buy Boyer's.

I once overheard a conversation Boyer was having with a well known barrel maker and a couple of well known shooters at the Supershoot one year. He listened to their conversation about looking inside a barrel to evaluate the barrels shooting capabilities. When they were done, Boyer said, THERE AIN'T BUT ONE WAY TO TELL IF A BARREL WILL SHOOT.....and he walked off.

Anyone can read about it, all can't do it...Boyer put in the time and thought.

There'll never be another Tony Boyer.

PS...Theory never beat actually doing it when the rubber meets the road.

Later
Dave

I bet ole vaughan neck sized that 270 to benchrest standards.

 

[Old Navy]

Bob, it might not take too much on this one. The thread fit is very generous and the factory had some sort of sealer on the threads. Rather than a 'sealer' it may like what Howa uses to stop the creep from the bluing salts. -Al

I had two taken off by a smith. Looks like hard setting pipe dope.

 

[Dave M.]

I was told to use anti seize on the threads and many here are saying not to do so. Can you expend why one would use EP-2 grease over and silver anti seize compound?
Dave

 

[dcali]

Thanks for the reply.

Tony Boyer shooting in SR BR didn't write any books on theories, but he has set a record of Hall Of Fame Points attained that will never be surpassed. His book is of more value when shooting knowledge comes into play due to his record. If you want theories buy Vaughn's book. If you want the real world of SR BR buy Boyer's.

I once overheard a conversation Boyer was having with a well known barrel maker and a couple of well known shooters at the Supershoot one year. He listened to their conversation about looking inside a barrel to evaluate the barrels shooting capabilities. When they were done, Boyer said, THERE AIN'T BUT ONE WAY TO TELL IF A BARREL WILL SHOOT.....and he walked off.

Anyone can read about it, all can't do it...Boyer put in the time and thought.

There'll never be another Tony Boyer.

PS...Theory never beat actually doing it when the rubber meets the road.

Later
Dave

I mean, that's one way to look at it. You're short changing Vaughn if you haven't read his book. Give it a look - he knew what he was doing. It's not a book full of theory - it's documentation of his experiments. Funnily enough, there's some stuff in Boyer's book that's just flat out wrong too. Turns out that shooting well does not stop a guy from being wrong from time to time, and vice versa. If nobody got anything wrong, this wouldn't be much fun.

 

[RGRobinett]

This is a Model 70 here for pillar bedding. The barrel is just hand tight in this pic. Notice the factory witness mark on the barrel shank and the corresponding mark on the front of the recoil lug area.

It seems like it would be a s-t-r-e-t-c-h (pun intended) to get there...but when you look at the stamping on the barrel relative to where it should be along the top of the stock, it's where it needs to go.

Good shootin' -Al

"Don't B strippin' no threads", Al!! BIG MIKE wouldn't 'like' that! RG

P.S. HE advised me, that when he gets that one back, he'll do a head-space comparison: just how much the H-S shortens, between just snugged up vs. @ the witness mark . . . break out the popcorn machine.

 

[AlNyhus]

"Don't B strippin' no threads", Al!! BIG MIKE wouldn't 'like' that! RG

P.S. HE advised me, that when he gets that one back, he'll do a head-space comparison: just how much the H-S shortens, between just snugged up vs. @ the witness mark . . . break out the popcorn machine.

I put all my action wrenches, barrel vices, spud bars and compound leverage pipe fitter tools away and out of sight. Removed the temptation, so to speak. You know how I get with witness marks!!!!

"When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." -Carl Nyhus (my Dad)

 

[jackieschmidt]

I put all my action wrenches, barrel vices, spud bars and compound leverage pipe fitter tools away and out of sight. Removed the temptation, so to speak. You know how I get with witness marks!!!!

"When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." -Carl Nyhus (my Dad)

Those witness marks could have been established at 4:30 Friday afternoon when everybody wanted to get the heck out of town.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I was told to use anti seize on the threads and many here are saying not to do so. Can you expend why one would use EP-2 grease over and silver anti seize compound?
Dave

Anti seize has metal in it to keep a thread from getting rusted shut when extreme temps like an exhaust cooks the grease out. Why introduce another metal into your threads when its only purpose is to be left behind when grease gets cooked out at a few thousand degrees.

 

[rijndael]

Why introduce another metal into your threads ...

And potentially the shouldered mating surfaces, right? I know folks here often suggest using grease/lube on that surface too.

 

[M-61]

Anti seize has metal in it to keep a thread from getting rusted shut when extreme temps like an exhaust cooks the grease out. Why introduce another metal into your threads when its only purpose is to be left behind when grease gets cooked out at a few thousand degrees.

Anti seize is a very generic term. There are many different types. Heat protectant is one of many pluses that some anti seize has.
For use in this area of firearms one should consider its corrosion protection, its lubrication ability, and in my opinion to help prevent galling which stainless steel loves to do.
Choosing the correct anti seize for these uses requires some knowledge of what it actually is doing FOR you. Not something you heard or think.
There is a site member who is actually a real ‘expert’ on anti seize. Meaning he has an education in this specialty and worked ‘with’ the US Navy on studying the problems with nuclear submarines and what type of anti seize caused problems on them because of salt water. I believe this was a 10year task. I hope he chimes in.

 

[Ccrider]

Anti seize is a very generic term. There are many different types. Heat protectant is one of many pluses that some anti seize has.
For use in this area of firearms one should consider its corrosion protection, its lubrication ability, and in my opinion to help prevent galling which stainless steel loves to do.
Choosing the correct anti seize for these uses requires some knowledge of what it actually is doing FOR you. Not something you heard or think.
There is a site member who is actually a real ‘expert’ on anti seize. Meaning he has an education in this specialty and worked ‘with’ the US Navy on studying the problems with nuclear submarines and what type of anti seize caused problems on them because of salt water. I believe this was a 10year task. I hope he chimes in.

Me too. I am interested to know what the right anti-seize is for br use.

 

[AlNyhus]

There are non metallic anti seize compounds. I know Jackie uses them and has posted about it.

 

[Bob3700]

Commercial aircraft use a graphite bases anti-seize compound on their multi- disc brake bolts. These components are high nickel steels. This is a high heat n stress area and u don’t see the traditional copper or silver based anti-seize compounds.
additionally, stainless steel is more prone to experience galling when in contact with a stainless steel surface. Stainless on stainless.
My receivers are all CM so this is not an issue for me.

 

[jackieschmidt]

There are non metallic anti seize compounds. I know Jackie uses them and has posted about it.

Here it is.

We buy it by the case because it is what we put on large prop shafts when we shrink Nickel/Chrome/Boron liners on.

 

[sfinn1]

A number of years ago, I had a tire going down on my way to work. I made it to the new tire store in town. They fixed the leak, then stripped three nuts and broke two studs torquing the nuts to 160 pounds with a torque wrench. Never been so po'd before or since.

Walt, we now know what doesn't work. Failure is a good learning curve. My first lesson as a pipefitter apprentice, told by an old timer, was get it tight then give her another turn. Typical old guy messing with a youngster. Don't do that with a barrel.

 

[Shooter13]

I could care less what Savage, Remington, or any other says about how tight to install a barrel on a typical bolt action tenon. I use around 80 ft pounds, and the rifles shoot great.

For these size threads, 80 ft pounds is really not much. It might seem like a lot, until you look at the torque specs on a 1/2 inch main bearing bolt on a big block Chevy.

Threads work in the function of securing a joint by being placed in tension. That means you have to actually stretch the metal in order to accomplish this. This amount of yield in the material is so slight on a barrel tenon that it would be difficult to qualify. But if the barrel joint has zero movement during the firing cycle, it is in tension.
I personally think 40 is too light. But if the Rifle shoots up to your expectations, who am I to argue with that.

I'm close, I use 75 ft lbs on all my barrels.

 

[D Coots]

The only grease to use with class....

 

[Shooter13]

I don’t torque My wheel lug nuts to 100 foot pounds.

You should, 95-115 depending on brand (car or truck).

 

[Dave Way]

I recently went to the range with six brand new 6 BRA HV barrels. The action on this rifle is glued in. I wanted to put several rounds through each to start the break in process and record the impact point so I could get on target quickly at 1,000 yards for the next test. I put each one on hand tight, no action wrench or barrel vise. All six shot one hole groups at 100 yards with ammo left over from last season. Three of the 3 shot groups were in the 1’s. How tight do barrels need to be torqued to shoot well? At what point are you just inducing stress into the barrel/action junction?



Dave.

 

[Rat Rifle]

You should, 95-115 depending on brand (car or truck).

My brand and source material must be different.