Jan 2023 NRA Highpower RuleBook

[Drolds72]

"The area of contact between the front bag and the rifle’s fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm (2.99
inches x 2.99 inches)."

Let's go by the rule first, then somebodies written memories of the process second.
The phrases don't match in an important way.
The maximum area of contact (between the bag and fore-end) does not include the sides. Fine.
The fore-end is still the entire fore-end as in common use.
The foreend is certainly not only 3 inches of length of the fore-end.

You know what, just tell me what range you are the match director at, so I can be sure not to shoot there.

Happy to abide by the guidelines that Aaron Farmer sent Keith Glasscock Remove the rollers, felt is fine, and everything below the bag is fine. You can have at it with anybody else.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Just received this from Aaron Farmer, Deputy Director of the Competitions Division. Unless a conflicting official interpretation from the Highpower Committee is provided, I think this serves as a good general interpretation of the rules.

As was said..there ya go. It is what it is and now it's clear. Agree or disagree, but lets all just go shoot and enjoy!

 

[Warren Dean]

"The area of contact between the front bag and the rifle’s fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm (2.99
inches x 2.99 inches)."

Let's go by the rule first, then somebodies written memories of the process second.
The phrases don't match in an important way.
The maximum area of contact (between the bag and fore-end) does not include the sides. Fine.
The fore-end is still the entire fore-end as in common use.
The foreend is certainly not only 3 inches of length of the fore-end.

kzin...are you a lawyer?

Common sense would discern from the above statement that the forend contact patch with the bag cannot exceed 3" wide and the front to back contact length of the bag cannot exceed 3".

 

[kzin]

kzin...are you a lawyer?

Common sense would discern from the above statement that the forend contact patch with the bag cannot exceed 3" wide and the front to back contact length of the bag cannot exceed 3".

No. Analyst/programmer for 30 years.

That's true, I never argued anything else.
Doesn't change the simple statement that only bag(s) can guide the fore-end.
Defining the maximum contact patch with the fore-end in one specific way in one clause does not mean that only that contact patch counts as fore-end everywhere else in the rules.

I don't care a bit if they want to allow non-bags on the sides.
It's not what the current text says, though.

I'm going back to a bipod on carpet.
Never any issues with that.

 

[Ringostar]

No. Analyst/programmer for 30 years.

That's true, I never argued anything else.
Doesn't change the simple statement that only bag(s) can guide the fore-end.
Defining the maximum contact patch with the fore-end in one specific way in one clause does not mean that only that contact patch counts as fore-end everywhere else in the rules.

I don't care a bit if they want to allow non-bags on the sides.
It's not what the current text says, though.

I'm going back to a bipod on carpet.
Never any issues with that.

You must not remember carpet-gate!

 

[kzin]

You must not remember carpet-gate!

Or I remember it VERY well

 

[Ken Dickerman]

Right - from the outside looking in, it seems like someone thought "these rests are getting stupid, lets draw a line". People who are trying to make and buy gear are justifiably upset over a moving target. thats why they need to lock it down one way or the other. Given that the cat is well out of the bag, I think it makes sense to drop restrictions altogether for open. Let people have their fun.

I'm not convinced that freely moving rests (as they are designed today) are really an advantage so much as a convenience.

Maybe go back to muzzle loaders and lock that in?

 

[Rset]

This whole issue has been a mess. Has already discouraged at least one person I know from ever competing in the sport, and has soured me even more on the NRA. As If that was even possible.
I am happy to have some direction as posted above, but am also already looking into other pursuits that are not only less expensive, but far less political in nature and just as enjoyable.
I will not stop shooting any time soon, been doing it for well over 40 years, but if the government can't stop us, we will stop ourselves instead it would appear. Hard enough to get people interested in shooting these days. Now 250# posts later arguing among ourselves, have we enriched the sport?
If you are a PRS, run and gun, sniper, I apologize. You guys are thriving. I have no real interest in competing in those sports today.

 

[diego-ted]

Just received this from Aaron Farmer, Deputy Director of the Competitions Division. Unless a conflicting official interpretation from the Highpower Committee is provided, I think this serves as a good general interpretation of the rules.

Works for me. Thx Keith for getting to the bottom of this!

 

[Cochran]

So after all of this, Can I use one of those giant one piece bags that swallows the rifle stock? They don’t have rollers or any butt adjusters! Lol

Sure you can, as long as the gun can be picked straight up without trying to lift the rest with it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

This whole issue has been a mess. Has already discouraged at least one person I know from ever competing in the sport, and has soured me even more on the NRA. As If that was even possible.
I am happy to have some direction as posted above, but am also already looking into other pursuits that are not only less expensive, but far less political in nature and just as enjoyable.
I will not stop shooting any time soon, been doing it for well over 40 years, but if the government can't stop us, we will stop ourselves instead it would appear. Hard enough to get people interested in shooting these days. Now 250# posts later arguing among ourselves, have we enriched the sport?
If you are a PRS, run and gun, sniper, I apologize. You guys are thriving. I have no real interest in competing in those sports today.

We all have opinions. I'm sorry if I said anything to upset anyone. I tried to be clear that it was just my opinion. This clarification doesn't change my opinion but it's an answer, whether I like or agree with it is not the point, to me. Yes, I think it'd be nice if equipment rules were more universal across more disciplines and that was my point all along. I feel bad for Rod, who apparently felt like he had been given a different understanding and has a lot of time and money invested in a fantastic rest/top design. All that is water under the bridge now unless it is a determining factor to if someone competes in this game or not. It hasn't deterred me but it has opened my eyes to some things that I wish were not a part of the sport and that there are still differences in how things are viewed. It's up to me now, as to if I choose to participate in f class or not. Nuff said really. I enjoy a good debate over things like this and I hope it gets people to think, even if I don't agree with the outcome. It does seem as though it was a compromise, although I'm sure neither side really sees it that way, as I do.

It is what it is. Lets just all go shoot and enjoy it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Sure you can, as long as the gun can be picked straight up without trying to lift the rest with it.

A gun that can't move, generally won't shoot well. As I said before...let em lock em down tight as hell, until they figure out that perceived advantage may well have been a disadvantage. Again, I like simple rules but this has been settled in my mind.

 

[davidjoe]

A gun that can't move, generally won't shoot well. As I said before...let em lock em down tight as hell, until they figure out that perceived advantage may well have been a disadvantage. Again, I like simple rules but this has been settled in my mind.

I’m not a mechanical engineer, but I don’t see this rule issue as being over, for this reason.

As I read the rule, posts and clarification, we may presently have sidewalls of any material and a fore end with vertical sides that snuggly fit the rest. This combination can completely prevent rifle tilting movement from torque, in the rest head.

If the rifle cannot tilt whatsoever, but smoothly and freely recoils exactly straight back, and can be lifted straight up, it will be legal. This combination in theory makes sand bags under the fore end irrelevant, and does not require tight clamping, simply smooth wall contact and uniform dimensions.

 

[Rset]

We all have opinions. I'm sorry if I said anything to upset anyone. I tried to be clear that it was just my opinion. This clarification doesn't change my opinion but it's an answer, whether I like or agree with it is not the point, to me. Yes, I think it'd be nice if equipment rules were more universal across more disciplines and that was my point all along. I feel bad for Rod, who apparently felt like he had been given a different understanding and has a lot of time and money invested in a fantastic rest/top design. All that is water under the bridge now unless it is a determining factor to if someone competes in this game or not. It hasn't deterred me but it has opened my eyes to some things that I wish were not a part of the sport and that there are still differences in how things are viewed. It's up to me now, as to if I choose to participate in f class or not. Nuff said really. I enjoy a good debate over things like this and I hope it gets people to think, even if I don't agree with the outcome. It does seem as though it was a compromise, although I'm sure neither side really sees it that way, as I do.

It is what it is. Lets just all go shoot and enjoy it.

Unfortunately, too late for some thinking about joining in my experience, and too late for many who might read this thread. We are our worst enemy, all while complaining about others.
Used to be we could all agree that shooting is fun. Seems like over the last few years that has changed like so many other things in the universe. (only my way is fun and if you don't agree, well F)($ off)
This forum is still one of the best available, but is no better than the facebook forums that have dominated it. Less stupidity on processes and practicalities, but same arrogance and indifference to the community.
I will likely have some very nice hardware up for sale in the near future. My gold membership will be expiring soon and I will not be renewing it. If you still choose to deal with me so be it, but I am done supporting the politics and arrogance on this forum.

 

[Sandstorm]

Can we just go shoot now.....

 

[Ringostar]

I just read something very interesting. Apparently there’s a lot of people misinterpreting the spirt thing. Spelled out in ICFRA rules it states, The spirt of the rules is meant to encourage innovation!

 

[Hotrod6.5]

I just read something very interesting. Apparently there’s a lot of people misinterpreting the spirt thing. Spelled out in ICFRA rules it states, The spirt of the rules is meant to encourage innovation!

Yes, and that’s why I innovate. I never intended to cause a problem and was never told my equipment was not allowed. In short, the system worked. Someone filed a question or complaint about my rollers and did so properly. It then went through the process and was ruled illegal by the committee. Good job!
I have had the same information from Aaron Farmer for a week now but didn’t feel like publishing it without Aarons consent, so thank you Keith for all you have done regarding the issue with the new “roller/wheel” rule. I am expecting my new felt only blocks to be ready to ship in 4-5 weeks. They are a completely new design with no provisions for rollers and much lighter in weight.
Rod B

 

[Albany Mountain]

I've been following HP Rules in Competitions for close to 50 years and I'll tell you it's not the color of your underwear but the fact you are wearing it as "outer wear".

Ever read this one? I think it spells out you have to wear trousers, not shorts.

I know one Range that dosen't allow flip flops.

3.12.1 Shooting Pants—Trousers made of cotton, cotton twill, khaki or similar weight material which may have non-slip- patches added to the knees and buttocks are permitted. Trousers made of any heavier material for example, leather or canvas are considered to provide artificial support and are prohibited.

" I think it spells out you have to wear trousers, not shorts." No, it spells out that IF you are wearing trousers, they may have non-slip applied but not of the type smallbore shooters wear. Shorts aren't mentioned nor anything else is specified for the bottom half.

 

[Carden260]

Unfortunately, too late for some thinking about joining in my experience, and too late for many who might read this thread. We are our worst enemy, all while complaining about others.
Used to be we could all agree that shooting is fun. Seems like over the last few years that has changed like so many other things in the universe. (only my way is fun and if you don't agree, well F)($ off)
This forum is still one of the best available, but is no better than the facebook forums that have dominated it. Less stupidity on processes and practicalities, but same arrogance and indifference to the community.
I will likely have some very nice hardware up for sale in the near future. My gold membership will be expiring soon and I will not be renewing it. If you still choose to deal with me so be it, but I am done supporting the politics and arrogance on this forum.

Excellent news. Please keep us posted on what you have for sale. I am always looking for new hardware. We need more active shooters and less people complaining about an "interpertation" of a rule. Good luck in PRS, you think Fclass has politics you aint seen nothing yet. Drop me a PM on what youre selling....

 

[kzin]

I just read something very interesting. Apparently there’s a lot of people misinterpreting the spirt thing. Spelled out in ICFRA rules it states, The spirt of the rules is meant to encourage innovation!

Interesting find.
Different organizations and rulesets can have different spirits.
Even the ICFRA TR rules don't have that statement.

All that means is IF compatibility with ICFRA is a major goal THEN the NRA rules spirit should be modified, at least for f-class.