usps insurance is a J O K E !!!! Tommy Mc.
Usps insurance
- Thread starter Alex Wheeler
- Start date
moondog
Gold $$ Contributor
Is 3rd party insurance an option?
Or, an operation like "Shipmygun"
What about using an ffl gun store to ship.
Would they be responsible?
Just asking for future. I do get nervous shipping an action across country for barrel work. Also waiting for the return.
Never been burned, but been nervous a few times on very delayed shipments.
Or, an operation like "Shipmygun"
What about using an ffl gun store to ship.
Would they be responsible?
Just asking for future. I do get nervous shipping an action across country for barrel work. Also waiting for the return.
Never been burned, but been nervous a few times on very delayed shipments.
I'm with Joshb on this one Small Claims BABY JUST TO BE A PAIN IN THE ARSH !!!
I would pay a a few bucks extra to have one of those air tiles sent with my package and then mail it back to the gunsmith and not think twice if I was sending something like that. It's not fool proof but probably better insurance than the phoney baloney shippers insurance.
They are like 40 bucks, I almost mailed one to myself to figure out why my postal delivery is so bad.
I'm sorry to hear you are having to eat the cost of that action.
They are like 40 bucks, I almost mailed one to myself to figure out why my postal delivery is so bad.
I'm sorry to hear you are having to eat the cost of that action.
pikespeakgoat
Gold $$ Contributor
Alex,
Sorry to hear this. IME, one thing that the 3 and 4 letter Fed agencies hate, is having to answer congressional inquiries. These inquiries cannot go unanswered.
You might be surprised what simple email to your US Senator or Representative may be able to accomplish. IMHO.
Bryan
Sorry to hear this. IME, one thing that the 3 and 4 letter Fed agencies hate, is having to answer congressional inquiries. These inquiries cannot go unanswered.
You might be surprised what simple email to your US Senator or Representative may be able to accomplish. IMHO.
Bryan
BountyHunter
Gold $$ Contributor
Couple words of caution.
1. With UPS and FEDEX you are not buying insurance. You are buying additional declared value. Read the receipts. There is a difference.
2. Both have explicit written instructions on how to package firearms. 2" solid foam all the way around is the norm. You need to follow their instructions. They have grounds to deny if you do not follow the requirements.
3. Both consider manufacturers original shipping boxes as "one time use" only.
4. If you use a 3rd party shipper such as a Mail Box, they have the claim not you!! You have to give all your documentation to them and let them file the claim and hopefully they are as passionate about your money as you are. Again, read the receipt they give you.
5. IF there is damage, have the receiver maintain all original shipping boxes, wrapping, foam etc and ask the shipper in writing (UPS/FEDEX/USPS) to go see the packaging. Have the receiver take plenty of pics and send them to you. Hopefully, the receiver had the delivery person note damage etc at time of delivery.
6. All will want you to "prove" current value and they will try to depreciate that. You must have documentation of current replacement value.
7. They will routinely deny the claim saying you failed do to something they required or at best offer maybe 25% of declared value. Here is how to respond again in writing and this is why they only have $100 standard insurance and require the additional declared value be purchase.
Liability of shippers/carriers is controlled by the Carmack Amendment of 1906 to the Interstate Commerce Act which "makes carriers liable for the full actual loss, damage, or injury*** caused by them to property they transport and declares unlawful and void any contract, regulation or tariff, or other means of limiting liability. "
The statute codifies that a carrier is liable for damage to goods transported UNLESS it can show the damage was cause by one of the following exceptions allowed by law:
a. the act of God,
b. public enemy
c. the act of the shipper himself
d. Public Authority
e. the inherent vice or nature of the goods.
Those are the ONLY exceptions for the carrier. Since they cannot show any of those they are on the hook.
By the way, this was specifically upheld the US Supreme Court ruling in Missouri Pacific Railroad vs. Elmore & Stahl, (1964).. The above comments were taken from the Supreme Court decision.
"You can pay the claim or I will file a small claims case and then you will pay the claim, and my attorney fees and filing charges etc." (Most small claims courts do not require an attorney and pretty easy filing with minimal costs to file and have sheriff deliver claim to the shipper (UPS/FEDEX and 3rd party shipper etc.)
NOTE: Copy this statement and save it for later.
8. Depending on how you shipped it, if they deny the claim you can sue either the shipper or 3rd party in small claims court and win with above statement and copy of the US Supreme Court decision which can be downloaded. That makes your case simple normally as they cannot fight a Supreme Court decision. Just give the judge a copy of the decision to back up your claim.
9. Note also that 3rd party shippers often do not buy additional declared value from the shipper (UPS/FEDEX). They carry private insurance that makes filing a claim even harder. Then you are suing the shipping company, the 3rd party shipper and his insurance so you have 3 defendants.
Been there and done that.
Read the supreme court decision and file a small claims court claim. Bet they pay before court date. I have had to do this twice and they paid both times before I filed.
1. With UPS and FEDEX you are not buying insurance. You are buying additional declared value. Read the receipts. There is a difference.
2. Both have explicit written instructions on how to package firearms. 2" solid foam all the way around is the norm. You need to follow their instructions. They have grounds to deny if you do not follow the requirements.
3. Both consider manufacturers original shipping boxes as "one time use" only.
4. If you use a 3rd party shipper such as a Mail Box, they have the claim not you!! You have to give all your documentation to them and let them file the claim and hopefully they are as passionate about your money as you are. Again, read the receipt they give you.
5. IF there is damage, have the receiver maintain all original shipping boxes, wrapping, foam etc and ask the shipper in writing (UPS/FEDEX/USPS) to go see the packaging. Have the receiver take plenty of pics and send them to you. Hopefully, the receiver had the delivery person note damage etc at time of delivery.
6. All will want you to "prove" current value and they will try to depreciate that. You must have documentation of current replacement value.
7. They will routinely deny the claim saying you failed do to something they required or at best offer maybe 25% of declared value. Here is how to respond again in writing and this is why they only have $100 standard insurance and require the additional declared value be purchase.
Liability of shippers/carriers is controlled by the Carmack Amendment of 1906 to the Interstate Commerce Act which "makes carriers liable for the full actual loss, damage, or injury*** caused by them to property they transport and declares unlawful and void any contract, regulation or tariff, or other means of limiting liability. "
The statute codifies that a carrier is liable for damage to goods transported UNLESS it can show the damage was cause by one of the following exceptions allowed by law:
a. the act of God,
b. public enemy
c. the act of the shipper himself
d. Public Authority
e. the inherent vice or nature of the goods.
Those are the ONLY exceptions for the carrier. Since they cannot show any of those they are on the hook.
By the way, this was specifically upheld the US Supreme Court ruling in Missouri Pacific Railroad vs. Elmore & Stahl, (1964).. The above comments were taken from the Supreme Court decision.
"You can pay the claim or I will file a small claims case and then you will pay the claim, and my attorney fees and filing charges etc." (Most small claims courts do not require an attorney and pretty easy filing with minimal costs to file and have sheriff deliver claim to the shipper (UPS/FEDEX and 3rd party shipper etc.)
NOTE: Copy this statement and save it for later.
8. Depending on how you shipped it, if they deny the claim you can sue either the shipper or 3rd party in small claims court and win with above statement and copy of the US Supreme Court decision which can be downloaded. That makes your case simple normally as they cannot fight a Supreme Court decision. Just give the judge a copy of the decision to back up your claim.
9. Note also that 3rd party shippers often do not buy additional declared value from the shipper (UPS/FEDEX). They carry private insurance that makes filing a claim even harder. Then you are suing the shipping company, the 3rd party shipper and his insurance so you have 3 defendants.
Been there and done that.
Read the supreme court decision and file a small claims court claim. Bet they pay before court date. I have had to do this twice and they paid both times before I filed.
@Alex Wheeler Usps insurance is a ploy to get you to spend more money than you need to to get a parcel delivered.
They won't admit fault " play the victim shift the blame" sort of thing.
I ate the damages and fixed the problem on my own dime .. TWICE
Unfortunately we are at thier mercy, and need to be willing to suffer the consequences on our dime.
They won't admit fault " play the victim shift the blame" sort of thing.
I ate the damages and fixed the problem on my own dime .. TWICE
Unfortunately we are at thier mercy, and need to be willing to suffer the consequences on our dime.
Write one of your US Senators via their web page. They will respond asking you to provide a privacy release. The Senators inquiry will result in a "congressional", that's a term the USPS uses and a metric they use to monitor performance. The USPS does not like "congressionals". USPS has a policy, sometimes only loosely followed, to respond to congressionals in 2 days. IMO it's the easiest way around the bureaucracy you are experiencing now.
Consider using Registered Mail in the future. USPS is the only shipper that will accept gold, silver and precious gems. We have shipped raw materials worth tens of thousands this way. Registered Mail is transferred and tracked person to person thru its journey and they sign off on the packaging when they accept the package for shipment
Consider using Registered Mail in the future. USPS is the only shipper that will accept gold, silver and precious gems. We have shipped raw materials worth tens of thousands this way. Registered Mail is transferred and tracked person to person thru its journey and they sign off on the packaging when they accept the package for shipment
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Can a non-FFL holder ship a firearm using USPS Registered mail? What (if anything) needs to be done differently to ship via Registered Mail service?
The one "ace" up the sleeve, we the peons have, is that screwing with the USPS mail is a federal crime. There is that, for whatever it's worth. Penalties have teeth, because of that.
Sadly, when we buy this or that online, there's usually zero option to add "insurance" to the shipping services, and zero option to make it a registered/certified shipment.
I've got a friend who for a couple of decades was a USPS muckety-muck. Able to rattle cages harshly, when necessary. Still doesn't resolve the embedded thievery, though. All the cards are basically in the hands of the anonymous folks behind the screen. They need only continue to claim it hasn't been found and "nothing can be done," and we end up eating the cost and loss.
Sadly, when we buy this or that online, there's usually zero option to add "insurance" to the shipping services, and zero option to make it a registered/certified shipment.
I've got a friend who for a couple of decades was a USPS muckety-muck. Able to rattle cages harshly, when necessary. Still doesn't resolve the embedded thievery, though. All the cards are basically in the hands of the anonymous folks behind the screen. They need only continue to claim it hasn't been found and "nothing can be done," and we end up eating the cost and loss.
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
That's how USPS recommends firearms be shipped.
OMW57
Silver $$ Contributor
Alex, UPS still has not reimbursed me for the barrel blank they lost while on it's way to you, they lost it on dec 9th, second blank made it ok, THANK THE LORD!, Guess I should be very thankful usps didnt lose MY barrel & action! VERY sorry to hear your having trouble, the shipping industry sucks right now!
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
I've had 3 claims with usps and never once have they paid, they actually told me bullets should have been shipped Class A! I sent in a detailed diagram of a loaded cartridge and what each part was and explained that the bullet was only lead and copper....DENIED. My claims were much smaller so eating the loss was easier. Hope you find resolution. Oh, one other thing, shipping "next day" I've never had a loss and yes MUCH more expensive.
@Alex Wheeler any chance the barreled action went missing in Memphis? I've had more stuff go missing at the Memphis hub than I care to count. As soon as I file a claim it miraculously shows up.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
One of my suppliers has a very large operation. The owner explained his self insurance operation. I had never heard of such a thing. It is exactly as described here. What would have been paid for insurance goes into an account. He said he never had a claim paid, same as you described.
FNSafari
Gold $$ Contributor
The problem with USPS "insurance" is that it's not really insurance, but a poorly understood method of extorting more money from the shipper for a process of possible reimbursement that is poorly understood and stack totally in the favor of the usps. Insurance, in the sense most understand it, is a legal contract between parties to pay for losses that occur due to a covered cause of loss. If there are disagreements the policyholder can demand mediation or can sue. Insurance contracts and claims services are regulated by each state and there is ample legal case law on many situations. In the case of the postal service they are the designer of the "insurance" you buy and the sole arbiter of a claim, something that real "insurance" is not saddled with.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
I had a scope return to opticsplanet go missing. Opticsplanet has a GUY that tracks missing packages. He made a few phone calls and they found the scope stuck in a corner at the PO I dropped it at. Apparently, an employee had stashed it waiting for the claim to blow over so he could take it home.
Memphis is bad and so is a place called Jamaica, New York. I no longer have anything on the label or package that insinuates it is gun related in any way, just from me to you.@Alex Wheeler any chance the barreled action went missing in Memphis? I've had more stuff go missing at the Memphis hub than I care to count. As soon as I file a claim it miraculously shows up.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I had a shipment make it to a hub, than no tracking update for a couple days. Went to the office where I shipped it, clerk told me what tracking showed. Asked if they could look into it, they said no. I happened to be in a neighboring town and went into that post office to see if the response was the same. The clerk there told me they have access to more information than what the customer sees on the tracking info. 5 minutes later she said she was going to call the hub because some scan times(shipping bin numbers were odd also) were strange. She took my phone number. No po has ever said they would call me. Next day I thought well she got me out of the office. Hour later strange number on incoming call, the clerk told me your package has been located(memphis, not the last scan location) and is headed to delivery.
The other play in this is the lost package auction system, pallets(truck loads) of "lost" items are sold regularly. EBay is full of the stuff.
The other play in this is the lost package auction system, pallets(truck loads) of "lost" items are sold regularly. EBay is full of the stuff.
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
And the scum bag is still employed, no doubt...
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