Cold weld, bullets stuck to case neck

[Coyotefurharvester]

Cartridges loaded in 2013. Component list new 17 rem nickel brass, Woodchuck Den 29 gr bullet, H414. Rifle Rem M700 Lilja barrel, reamer custom for this brass lot. Last couple weeks I grabbed cartridges from the bulk loading as I use multiple rifles (calibers) for coyote. Well I shot a few coyote and thought I would reload the once fired cases, I noticed a very small longitudinal crack in the neck. I had once fired (2013-2018)unprocessed brass in the bulk bag (ziplock)of cartridges, so I neck sized and loaded them. Shot on paper, zero confirmed no cracks. I took 15 of the remaining new 2013 cartridges and set my seating die .003-0.004 deeper. When I seat there is an audible and can feel the "snap or pop"(doesn't crack the neck) at the end of the ram travel. So I pulled 5 bullets, didn't dump powder, neck sized and expander mandrel(.171) the case neck. Reseated(same cbto) the original bullet for each case. 10 I used the grip n pull to partially pull the bullet(to avoid a powder spill and the resizing step) I than applied dry graphite lube to the bullet. I had dry lubed the pulled bullets of the first 5 also. Well I shot a couple of each and no neck cracks. I saw no poi change on target. So I will continue the partial pull, lube and reseat as I need cartridges until the remaining join the once fired pile. I can't replace the bullets so I don't want to risk ruining any, but don't want to throw away once fired brass either. Cold weld, bullets stuck to new case necks, not sure what to call it?

 

[Homerange]

Cartridges loaded in 2013.

Cold weld, bullets stuck to new case necks, not sure what to call it ?
Exactly this ^
Your remedy is appropriate too if you need to save the brass.

 

[Walt Krafft]

I would just seat them a little deeper like you did and shoot them. That was a common practice for match ammo at one time.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I can try just cracking them free, this rifle is not seating depth fussy. Just need/want to hold my zero and not ruin brass. Not intending as an endorsement, but the grip n pull is saving me money and time. As I don't have a 17 cal collet for pulling and the impact pulled won't move a bullet with 3 hard blows.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dont worry about relubing them. If they were mine id seat them .015-.020 deeper, hammer them out longer then reseat to the right length. You have found galvanic corrosion and carbon in the necks makes it worse ive found, kinda speeds up the process

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I think the fact that I didn't lube the new case necks(inside) is the issue. I do have a bag of same new brass lot, powder/primer but different custom bullet. Snow storm rolling in here this week, will check those for the same problem.

 

[jds holler]

Neck weld is for real. I had a bunch of 270's that I loaded prolly ten years ago - maybe more. took that rifle and shells out to blow the cobwebs out and it shot horrible, like four MOA. It had been about a 1.5 MOA hunting load.

Took them home and tried to knock them out with the hammer-puller, and holy crap! Some came OK, others I had to beat the crap out of them just to get them to budge. Soooo, I've got about a hundred of these shells that I need to fix. I'll use the dusty method next time. jd

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've won matches with old ammo so I'm not sure what or how much it matters. I do think the physics lends itself to saying that bullet weld is likely more important if jumping vs jamming pretty hard. There was a good thread on this over on BRC some years back,. with one of the posters being an engineer and professor at UofL. His name is Keith Sharp. I'll see f I can find it. It's an eye opener if I can find it.


edit...haven't found the exact thread yet but the point was that the physics are way more simple than we make them out to be...that the weight of the case neck(yes) vs the weight of the bullet is what determines which moves first. It did not take neck weld into consideration but think about what I just said for a minute. The light(very) neck brass moves before the bullet weight! Hmmmm! Makes sense but I bet most of us don't look at it that simply.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I've won matches with old ammo so I'm not sure what or how much it matters. I do think the physics lends itself to saying that bullet weld is likely more important if jumping vs jamming pretty hard. There was a good thread on this over on BRC some years back,. with one of the posters being an engineer and professor at UofL. His name is Keith Sharp. I'll see f I can find it. It's an eye opener if I can find it.


edit...haven't found the exact thread yet but the point was that the physics are way more simple than we make them out to be...that the weight of the case neck(yes) vs the weight of the bullet is what determines which moves first. It did not take neck weld into consideration but think about what I just said for a minute. The light(very) neck brass moves before the bullet weight! Hmmmm! Makes sense but I bet most of us don't look at it that simply.

I do know the old cases that are cold welded shoot horribly so this may be another example of the books not matching real world results sometimes

 

[abersfelderami]

...........maybe after time brass neck tension is different?

 

[Gary in MD]

I do know the old cases that are cold welded shoot horribly so this may be another example of the books not matching real world results sometimes

Dusty,
What do you recommend for ammo that may possibly sit for a while before being shot?
Clean the necks real good after sizing?
Coat the inside of the neck with something?
I have experienced the “cold welding phenomenon” in the past also and would like to avoid it.
Thanks
Gary

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,
What do you recommend for ammo that may possibly sit for a while before being shot?
Clean the necks real good after sizing?
Coat the inside of the neck with something?
I have experienced the “cold welding phenomenon” in the past also and would like to avoid it.
Thanks
Gary

I like the MOLY lube kit from 21st century. Seems like the graphite lubes work just like neck carbon speeding up the welding process

 

[Gary in MD]

I like the MOLY lube kit from 21st century. Seems like the graphite lubes work just like neck carbon speeding up the welding process

Crap, I was hoping that you wouldn’t say moly.
I used it in the 90s but got rid of all that messy stuff.
Thanks

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Crap, I was hoping that you wouldn’t say moly.
I used it in the 90s but got rid of all that messy stuff.
Thanks

Not moly on the bullets, moly neck lube. Its just like the graphite kits but with moly instead

 

[Gary in MD]

Oh, that may be a horse of a different color!
I’ll try it. Thanks again
Gary

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I'm not an electrical engineer or a chemist, molybdenum has a higher ohm value than both carbon(slighty lower) and graphite is that why it may/would reduce the corrosion bonding between copper and brass?

 

[jds holler]

I'm gonna start using goose grease. jd

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I'm not an electrical engineer or a chemist, molybdenum has a higher ohm value than both carbon(slighty lower) and graphite is that why it may/would reduce the corrosion bonding between copper and brass?

Maybe so. Its an insulator

 

[chop house]

Seems like the graphite lubes work just like neck carbon speeding up the welding process

Yikes! point taken.

 

[Old Navy]

The light(very) neck brass moves before the bullet weight! Hmmmm! Makes sense but I bet most of us don't look at it that simply.

How would someone even prove that or measure it?