Induction brass annealer redux

[SGK]

It's well worth watching Reese's latest video, particularly if you are of the view that 1.9s is "gospel". Personally I wouldn't size after annealing so I think his last test scenario isn't valid/appropriate. But note just how soft the 1.9s brass was versus, for example, where Norma anneals its brass to during production (which would equate to somewhere between 1 and 1.5 seconds in his tests - for which he did specifically says he was unsure of temps but I think we can assume he was at least trying for 1000F given the previous video). It is good that, one way or another, he had access to a Vickers hardness tester (although admits it wasn't his).

 

[RegionRat]

It's well worth watching Reese's latest video, particularly if you are of the view that 1.9s is "gospel". Personally I wouldn't size after annealing so I think his last test scenario isn't valid/appropriate. But note just how soft the 1.9s brass was versus, for example, where Norma anneals its brass to during production (which would equate to somewhere between 1 and 1.5 seconds in his tests - for which he did specifically says he was unsure of temps but I think we can assume he was at least trying for 1000F given the previous video). It is good that, one way or another, he had access to a Vickers hardness tester (although admits it wasn't his).

This video seems to be behind a paywall for me.
Maybe you could give us a summary of what it says?

 

[SGK]

I could but I don't think it fair as the guy gets money for posting the videos (plus advertising revenues but I suspect his follower base is far too small to make that significant and hence the subscription feature). The cost is very small. (But in his test conditions brass was circa half as soft for 1.9s vs 1s and very, very far below what Norma and AMP work towards.) As he notes "the results pose more questions than answers."

Maybe if more people subscribe we can shape his further investigations...

Maybe Reese is @VenatusDominus

 

[VenatusDominus]

I could but I don't think it fair as the guy gets money for posting the videos (plus advertising revenues but I suspect his follower base is far too small to make that significant and hence the subscription feature). The cost is very small. (But in his test conditions brass was circa half as soft for 1.9s vs 1s and very, very far below what Norma and AMP work towards.) As he notes "the results pose more questions than answers."

Maybe if more people subscribe we can shape his further investigations...

Maybe Reese is @VenatusDominus

Haha, no, I am not Reese. My degrees are in electrical engineering and medicine. Before building by annealer I did a lot of research on the net and at that time (early 2020) his content was free. If my memory serves me, I believe he has a degree in mechanical engineering and the formula he presents is from one of his text books/classes on metallurgy. I found that he was one of the few presenting science based content on annealing, and not just perpetuating what was commonly being preached on the web (like the 750 degree F temp for annealing).

 

[Dave M.]

Hello, the knowledge and experience in this thread is amazing, encyclopedic! Wondering if anyone will offer a "quick opinion" on this annealing result, with Tempilaq 850 (my 1000 degree has dried up <frown>).
It's a .223 GFI case (96.5 gr) and I used 4.1 seconds inductive exposure (my annealer is not very powerful).

--> So, question for the veteran induction annealers here: is this distance down the case body looking acceptable, based on your unique experience? Or, does it look like I should go a little further down. Thank you!

View attachment 1383946

Definitely NOT further, I’ll even say that it’s too far down on the body in the picture you have shown above.
Dave

 

[ReneZ]

Just a curiosity question - Since the beginning this "project" has matured quite a bit. Since I'm retired and enjoy projects (depending on what they are), just wondering if anyone else like minded would consider a higher level starting point for newcomers. Meaning, code for an Arduino that would cover options like flame sensor or time, straight flame sensor (trip when it first reaches temp) or maintain temp for a selectable time by pulsing output, trap door and case feeder. Would need to figure out what I/O would be needed for case feeder.
I'm somewhat comfortable with Assembly for PIC micros but I've barely touched an Arduino. I'd be lucky if I remember how to turn one on! I suppose I could do a shield for option select switches and I/O connections plus the header to connect to the Arduino.
So, if a newbie would buy the Arduino, a shield and all the other normal parts they would be starting way up the curve.

Just a thought.....

I would be game! I've been tinkering around, starting basic with trying to analyse other people's set-up and arduino codes to now start adding external ADS to increase sensor bandwith and external Eeprom for value retention. In my view the light sensor is the way to go as it would accommodate for brass variations. Looking at menus/input, but there is a lot of slightly different projects out there and I don't have a lot of time/personal memory space left to give to this. Some of your arduino programms are work of art, but the reverse engineering needed due to lack of information makes it an interesting puzzle. That's without tying it all together to get a workeable piece of kit. With regards to the discussion about how much to anneal I go back to basics - I want to anneal to get (most of) the stress out so my reloading will be consistant and brass live maximised. Thoroughly enjoying the sharing of knowledge/experience here!! Cheers, Rene.

 

[patchwar]

Hi everyone, this has been a great forum thread! Very informative.

I am working on making my own annealer and noticed that with a 48V 1000W supply dialed down to 40V I was drawing 25+ Amps on a 223 case. My coil was ~9 turns with an inner radius of approximately 0.6".

My question is, if I adjust my coil to be larger as in the original design (I just stumbled onto this forum) will my current be reduced? I'm tempted to make a coil similar to VenatusDominus which is an inner and outer diameter.

Note* I'm interested in both 223 and things like 6.5 Creedmoor, 7.5x55 Swiss, and 303 British

 

[itchyTF]

That’s a lot of amps! How much does it draw without a case?

 

[patchwar]

That’s a lot of amps! How much does it draw without a case?

Not sure (zero), I pull the gates of my FETs low on the ZVS

 

[itchyTF]

Run a cycle without a case.

 

[patchwar]

Run a cycle without a case.

Went to 15A with that coil with nothing inside

 

[itchyTF]

I believe a number of people saw less than 10 amps without a case. Not sure whether the PS maintains its 1,000 watt rating if the voltage is lowered.

 

[patchwar]

I guess my question is whether changing the coil will significantly impact the drawn current

 

[itchyTF]

It can, but I’m surprised it’s drawing that much with a 1.2” ID and 9 turns. Might there be any shorted turns? Are you using 1/8” or 1/4” tubing?

 

[patchwar]

1/8" tubing and apologies, the ID is a diameter of 0.6" not a radius. I believe I mistyped previously.
Don't believe there are any shorted coil turns

 

[itchyTF]

Are you using that insulating tubing around the copper? Maybe a picture or two of your setup might help.

 

[itchyTF]

Using your numbers, an online inductance calculator came up with about .7uH. You should be shooting for about 1uH.

 

[oliverpsmile]

I found that he was one of the few presenting science based content on annealing, and not just perpetuating what was commonly being preached on the web (like the 750 degree F temp for annealing).

Mr. Reese numerically clarified temperature-time relationship. At least he showed us the exponential trend of the annealing process. Mr. George F. Vander Voort did the same (see my post 3,245). His 30 minutes @ 1200 F experiments gave me the idea to "excommunicate" the 1.88 sec Reese gospel.

It's well worth watching Reese's latest video, particularly if you are of the view that 1.9s is "gospel"

My Arduino based ** closed loop temperature control algorithm ** was modified to extend the Reese formula time. to 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 and 4 sec. The only barely noticeable difference was the size of the coloring under the shoulder.

The closed loop temperature control allows you to safely change power level, temperature, and overall production time to certain limits, in order to keep lower temperature at the case's lower body.

** When the temperature of the neck reaches 1000 F, the program enters a loop for a set time. During this time, the power to the ZVS is switched (several hundreds times) ON and OFF between 1000-1200 F.

P.S. To VenatusDominus - For the record, I'm a retired Professional Engineer, licensed in several states with advanced degrees in EE (majoring in Industrial Automation), First Class Marine Engineer, author of financial solutions software and I hold several patents regarding telemetry in the oil industry.

​

 

[patchwar]

Using your numbers, an online inductance calculator came up with about .7uH. You should be shooting for about 1uH.

Isn't the coil VenatusDominus uses not 1uH (closer to like 0.55uH) or am I doing the calculation wrong? I'm confused... His is 0.65" inner diameter and a 3.5 inner turn and 3 outer

 

[patchwar]

I just made the original coil suggested from this thread and it appears I'm only drawing 8.5A at 40V which is now too little haha! Maybe I should crank up the voltage slightly / make yet another coil which is a smaller inner diameter

Two coils for reference: