KG-12 Test Results?
- Thread starter WayneShaw
- Start date
That's what color it is...kinda dark piss yeller.
Give it a try!
Well, pretty anti-climatic results. Both lost less than a tenth of additional copper after doing it a second time. The scale was bouncing back and forth on both of them. IOW, the Patch Out won by a total of approx total copper removal of .25 grains of copper and the KG12 about .15 grains after roughly 48 hrs. Since it actually slowed down after re-filling the cups to a point where both were completely submerged on the 2nd time, I'm inclined to believe air might actually help the process but it's based solely on just that. More was removed by both during the 1st 24 hours with both bullets about 2/3rds covered than the 2nd 24 hours with both totally submerged. I'll post a pic shortly but nothing real exciting.
Like I said, I did this same test a few years ago with very different results and it might be the same old bottle of kg12. So yes, I'm inclined to believe it has some sort of shelf life that is long passed.
I'm done but I hope someone with a fresh bottle and better scales will do the same and post it. I've wasted more time on things I guess. I think I learned that I need to order a new bottle. Lol!
Both were still more effective than most of the cleaners in the test in the op, and these were 55 gr 22 cal bullets, so much less area exposed to the cleaners than the 338 cal 210 grainers in their test...fwiw
Like I said, I did this same test a few years ago with very different results and it might be the same old bottle of kg12. So yes, I'm inclined to believe it has some sort of shelf life that is long passed.
I'm done but I hope someone with a fresh bottle and better scales will do the same and post it. I've wasted more time on things I guess. I think I learned that I need to order a new bottle. Lol!
Both were still more effective than most of the cleaners in the test in the op, and these were 55 gr 22 cal bullets, so much less area exposed to the cleaners than the 338 cal 210 grainers in their test...fwiw
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Sure. Some effective carbon cleaners won't touch copper and vice versa.
Absolutely !
Gargoyle
Finder Outer
Chemically, but not mechanically I assume.
Well, to qualify it in My experience, most, maybe all, carbon cleaners and general bore cleaners will remove “some“ copper. But, IMO, to get the copper out, We need a copper remover.
Now, enough of “some“barrel cleaners will remove everything.
The more mechanical action, the quicker, and the better.
This is what the bore scope is telling Me
Abrasive, even a brush, is very effective at scoring carbon so the chemical can work much more effectively. I've not seen that as much with copper but JB can work wonders when needed.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
JB on a worn plastic Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush, with Fine Bronze wool wound in the brush for a badly fouled barrel. Short stroke in problem areas.
I recently tried Thurro Clean, and this is a great cleaner for some stubborn carbon, on patches only, tight punch type jag. I highly recommend this product, and it is Bore scope verified for use on carbon build up.
I recently tried Thurro Clean, and this is a great cleaner for some stubborn carbon, on patches only, tight punch type jag. I highly recommend this product, and it is Bore scope verified for use on carbon build up.
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
I have tried the Thurro Clean and use it sometimes. It does no better cleaning than some of the others. Still needed some physical catalyst. However, it did leave a noticeably shinier finish.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I rate abrasives in this way from least to most Abrasive
Jb
Iosso paste
Montana Extreme Copper cream
Flitz Firearm Bore cleaner
Thurro Clean
Methods of application from least to most aggressive:
Patches on a tight punch type jag
plastic Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush
Plastic Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush with Fine Bronze wool wound in the bristles
Very, very worn bronze bristle brush with Fine Bronze Wool wound in the bristles. You can short stroke with this type of worn brush.
Test Cartridges with 30-65 rounds in between cleanings:
308 Win- IMR XBR 8208, Varget, R#15, H4895
7 Rem Mag- IMR 4350, Retumbo, R#22, R#25, R#26
7 STW-IMR 7828
257 Weatherby-R#22
Use of Bronze bristle brushes with 60 strokes or less on it is your best friend, completely worn out at 100 strokes, throw in a box to use with Fine Bronze wool at 100 strokes.
Some cut rifle barrels are absolutely rough as hell, copper mines.
Jb
Iosso paste
Montana Extreme Copper cream
Flitz Firearm Bore cleaner
Thurro Clean
Methods of application from least to most aggressive:
Patches on a tight punch type jag
plastic Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush
Plastic Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush with Fine Bronze wool wound in the bristles
Very, very worn bronze bristle brush with Fine Bronze Wool wound in the bristles. You can short stroke with this type of worn brush.
Test Cartridges with 30-65 rounds in between cleanings:
308 Win- IMR XBR 8208, Varget, R#15, H4895
7 Rem Mag- IMR 4350, Retumbo, R#22, R#25, R#26
7 STW-IMR 7828
257 Weatherby-R#22
Use of Bronze bristle brushes with 60 strokes or less on it is your best friend, completely worn out at 100 strokes, throw in a box to use with Fine Bronze wool at 100 strokes.
Some cut rifle barrels are absolutely rough as hell, copper mines.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Flitz isnt abrasive, but it works like it is.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I catarized all of those as an "abrasive" because that is how most would think of them.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I had a Savage Model 16 that would shoot 1/4" groups for 7-9 shots, then started to open up due to copper fouling, bore looked like it was gold plated. KG12 made short order of the copper, but I did use a wool mop as an applicator
.
The product went bad over time, and the company graciously replaced it.
After using the KG12 on that savage, then another Savage, they go together like peas and carrots.
.
The product went bad over time, and the company graciously replaced it.
After using the KG12 on that savage, then another Savage, they go together like peas and carrots.
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It has aluminum oxide in it. That's an abrasive.
I tried so many alleged copper and carbon removers over the years, I don't remember whether or not I've tried KG-12. If I did, results were probably not effective as I didn't continue to use it. If I didn't, I need to get some and give it a try.
Something I've tried lately on several rifles that seems to work pretty well... I apply Bore Tech C4 carbon cleaner and brush with a bronze brush. Re-apply and let soak a few minutes. Dry the bore and apply Patch Out and Accelerator (not sure the Accelerator does anything but it might) and let soak thirty minutes or so. There has been very little blue, if any, on the patches using this method as opposed to using only Patch Out and Accelerator, so the C4 is obviously doing a considerable bit toward copper removal.
I don't try to remove every bit of copper or carbon. I realize this reasoning doesn't set well with the the fastidious/ obsessive folks, but from an accuracy perspective, I've found it's just not necessary.
For copper removal, it's hard to beat Patch Out, but I'm going to get some KG-12 just in case I haven't tried it before. Many of the other copper removers not mentioned here work, but they work very slowly, too slow for many, including me.
As for carbon removal, probably many of all of the so-called carbon removers work, but only if carbon fouling is minimal. On hard carbon fouling, all of them I've tried (many) are worthless, but JB paste works. Just don't remove carbon down to the metal. I did this with a Cooper .270 once and it took about a dozen rounds to foul the bore enough that it would shoot accurately again.
Something I've tried lately on several rifles that seems to work pretty well... I apply Bore Tech C4 carbon cleaner and brush with a bronze brush. Re-apply and let soak a few minutes. Dry the bore and apply Patch Out and Accelerator (not sure the Accelerator does anything but it might) and let soak thirty minutes or so. There has been very little blue, if any, on the patches using this method as opposed to using only Patch Out and Accelerator, so the C4 is obviously doing a considerable bit toward copper removal.
I don't try to remove every bit of copper or carbon. I realize this reasoning doesn't set well with the the fastidious/ obsessive folks, but from an accuracy perspective, I've found it's just not necessary.
For copper removal, it's hard to beat Patch Out, but I'm going to get some KG-12 just in case I haven't tried it before. Many of the other copper removers not mentioned here work, but they work very slowly, too slow for many, including me.
As for carbon removal, probably many of all of the so-called carbon removers work, but only if carbon fouling is minimal. On hard carbon fouling, all of them I've tried (many) are worthless, but JB paste works. Just don't remove carbon down to the metal. I did this with a Cooper .270 once and it took about a dozen rounds to foul the bore enough that it would shoot accurately again.
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AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
1, 2, and 5 micron Al Oxide are usually the scrubbers, depending on the brand.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I don't try to remove every bit of copper or carbon. I realize this reasoning doesn't set well with the the fastidious/ obsessive folks, but from an accuracy perspective, I've found it's just not necessary.
The problem is that the carbon builds up, then you are in one heck of a mess trying to get the super heated carbon out.
As for carbon removal, probably many of all of the so-called carbon removers work, but only if carbon fouling is minimal. On hard carbon fouling, all of them I've tried (many) are worthless, but JB paste works. Just don't remove carbon down to the metal. I did this with a Cooper .270 once and it took about a dozen rounds to foul the bore enough that it would shoot accurately again.
Agreed, but I clean mine down to bare metal as a matter of practice. I have never had a barrel take 12 rounds to shoot accurately again, 3 rounds at most.
Over time, we will begin to see more and more video's posted, taken with Teslong bore scopes, documenting various bore conditions at various stages of being fouled and being cleaned. These methodical video's will be a game changer as they document facts.
Rough barrels that are copper mines show where KG12 really shines, I just do not have the patience to deal with a rough barrel!
The problem is that the carbon builds up, then you are in one heck of a mess trying to get the super heated carbon out.
As for carbon removal, probably many of all of the so-called carbon removers work, but only if carbon fouling is minimal. On hard carbon fouling, all of them I've tried (many) are worthless, but JB paste works. Just don't remove carbon down to the metal. I did this with a Cooper .270 once and it took about a dozen rounds to foul the bore enough that it would shoot accurately again.
Agreed, but I clean mine down to bare metal as a matter of practice. I have never had a barrel take 12 rounds to shoot accurately again, 3 rounds at most.
Over time, we will begin to see more and more video's posted, taken with Teslong bore scopes, documenting various bore conditions at various stages of being fouled and being cleaned. These methodical video's will be a game changer as they document facts.
Rough barrels that are copper mines show where KG12 really shines, I just do not have the patience to deal with a rough barrel!
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