Preferred chronograph these days?

[BobbyJ]

Wondering what everyone is using that ACTUALLY WORKS reliably? Also if there’s anything new out there and better than a labradar or magnetospeed?

Im getting very frustrated with my labradar and am considering getting a V3 magneto. Id prefer not to have something hanging off the barrel but oh well.

Any input?

(Just got back from the range, not one shot picked up with labradar. Ive tried the external triggers, different tripods, settings, location of the unit in relation to the muzzle, etc…)

Thanks for any help

I can have any of them and still use the Pro Chrono DLX. I would pick that or the V3.
The ole fashion chronos are so versitile and pretty fast to set up. With the blue tooth I bring ZERO extra paper and pens to the range.

Some one says "Hey do you mind if run my pistol over you chrono, no problem there is nothing to calibrate or set up. I've had so many guys use mine at the range to test there guns and it takes their string and I send it to their phone in PDF. one and done very easy. Can't do that with a V3.

I could see having two chronos The Pro Chrono and V3 but if I were to have just one its the Pro Chrono. The setup with Blue tooth and versatility make it too easy.

Nothing against labdar a few at my range have them. And one thing I noticed is they are always messing with them and the setup is slow as molasses for them and always fiddling with it.

Maybe there are some updates to the labradar but from what I saw its 3rd on my list. If you like versitile and EZ with nice no fuss fast software get the Pro Chrono DLX.

 

[furrybean]

 

[BobbyJ]

ditto

Likewise, I've never believed ladder testing as a reliable way of finding a charge weight that works best, particularly when charge weights are not measured very accurately . . . among many other factors at play. Having just received Bryan Litz new book (Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting, volume III), in chapter 6 that's dedicated to this, he shows he has done extensive testing on this, way more than anyone I've heard of, and the results led him to conclude "the method of ladder testing does not reliably identify a favorable window of charge weight". The evidence he presents is very compelling.

I only use my chrono data to help establish a powder burn rate for a particular lot of powder for use in QuickLoads app to assist in load development and to use the data in my ballistic apps for shooting solutions. The chrono data also simply tells me how well I'm loading my cartridges, or not.

I've used my MagnetoSpeed V3 for several years now and its accuracy has been right there when compared to various Labradars from other shooters and way more consistent in picking up every shot. If a Labradar was as dependable as the MagnetoSpeed, I'd certainly switch over.

View attachment 1369598

So you are saying all the guys that do ladders are wasting their time trying to find a node that does not exist?

I think it depends on the barrel/gun some barrel vibrate more than others. I noticed my bull barrels are less node sensitive and using those barrels one might find the ladder does not bear out load that is just better than the others.

The V3 is going to change POI sometimes more sometime not much. And it also can change groups depending on the gun its used on.

If they could get the V3 to work as well as it does AND not hang off the barrel it would sell better. Since they have not figured that out yet the next course of action is to pretend it does not matter if its hanging off the barrel because ladder method is too flawed. Once you accept that as a truth the V3 because the best chrono!

 

[Straightshooter1]

So you are saying all the guys that do ladders are wasting their time trying to find a node that does not exist?

First, I'm not saying a node does not exist. I am simply saying that doing a ladder to find a node is not reliable. Just look at the data that Bryan Litz published regarding this (see in that picture I posted). If a node is found doing a ladder, it's just sheer luck of the draw.

There are many factors effecting variance in velocities from one cartridge to another. To reduce many of the variances for a ladder test (or any test for that matter), one would best be served by using the same case, processed the same, over and over for the different loads. Even then, there's a measure of variance.

 

[powderbrake]

I have a Chrony, a Magnetospeed V3, and a Labradar.
I set up the Labradar every time I go to the range because it is reliable, easy to aet up, can set up while the range is hot, and nothing hangs on the barrel to change the point of impact.
I set it up on a tripod in front of the bench with the muzzle about 1 to 2" from the side of the Labradar, about 1 to 2" in front of the Labradar so the blast doesn't hit the case, and vertically centered on the Labradar. It works very well there. I have recently purchased a trigger, and it works great (when I remember to plug it in).

I recommend an external battery, and reading the manual carefully to prevent setup errors.

 

[BobbyJ]

First, I'm not saying a node does not exist. I am simply saying that doing a ladder to find a node is not reliable. Just look at the data that Bryan Litz published regarding this (see in that picture I posted). If a node is found doing a ladder, it's just sheer luck of the draw.

There are many factors effecting variance in velocities from one cartridge to another. To reduce many of the variances for a ladder test (or any test for that matter), one would best be served by using the same case, processed the same, over and over for the different loads. Even then, there's a measure of variance.

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to disagree with you on any of this. I thought that it was a given that if you are going to do a ladder that you would not use mixed brass, diff primers etc. I use the same everything only changing the amount of powder.

I would love it if load ladders were so unreliable that they are futile and should be avoided. Its a pain in the butt to do it. I like EZ and am currently testing various loads in a bunch of different ARs. In the end I will settle on one load for all of them vs one load for each gun.

I can't do that with a V3 as it changes the barrel harmonics. At some point I might decide to toss out doing ladders and use a V3. On some guns I've found the bullet and not the powder charge made the biggest difference, it shot the same groups with many loads, even OAL made little difference in groups.

I've also done what many don't recommend load a bunch of non sorted range brass not even cleaning out military primer pockets to see worst case. I was able to prime most of the military brass but did crush a few primers in the process, enough to give me an idea what happens if you don't do any primer pocket prep. At 100 yards the worst case was not all that bad.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to disagree with you on any of this. I thought that it was a given that if you are going to do a ladder that you would not use mixed brass, diff primers etc. I use the same everything only changing the amount of powder.

Sorry, I was not referring to anything like "mixed brass". I meant using a single case, over and over for the various loads.

I would love it if load ladders were so unreliable that they are futile and should be avoided. Its a pain in the butt to do it. I like EZ and am currently testing various loads in a bunch of different ARs. In the end I will settle on one load for all of them vs one load for each gun.

. . . kinda like using factory ammo in a bunch of different AR's???

I can't do that with a V3 as it changes the barrel harmonics. At some point I might decide to toss out doing ladders and use a V3. On some guns I've found the bullet and not the powder charge made the biggest difference, it shot the same groups with many loads, even OAL made little difference in groups.

I've also done what many don't recommend load a bunch of non sorted range brass not even cleaning out military primer pockets to see worst case. I was able to prime most of the military brass but did crush a few primers in the process, enough to give me an idea what happens if you don't do any primer pocket prep. At 100 yards the worst case was not all that bad.

The extent one does for any load development depends a lot on what end results one intends to get, huh?

A few years back I collected various once fired range brass and gave them the precision processing that I do, including turning necks, to see what differences I could observe. For the most part, the various brass performed pretty well, though there were variations that effected results (like case capacities, irregular and off-center flash holes and such). Since I put so much work into them, I've kept them stored away in case I might find a use for them.

 

[BobbyJ]

. . . kinda like using factory ammo in a bunch of different AR's???

Pretty much like good factory ammo. Which for ARs is good enough.

It shot 1/2 MOA out of my newest AR and not even using a led sled.

 

[USMCDOC]

Which ones read 22LR well?

 

[Rob01]

Which ones read 22LR well?

Magnetospeed works great for .22.

 

[USMCDOC]

Magnetospeed works great for .22.

Saweet

 

[STOMP442]

Magneto speed is still the easiest to use, most reliable and accurate chrony I have ever used. Put it one when you have found your load, get your data and put it away. That simple and never have to go down range and set anything up.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Labradar is amazing and mine works flawlessly for the most part. The ONLY real complaint I have is the 3800 fps speed limit.

 

[SSL]

Magneto speed is still the easiest to use, most reliable and accurate chrony I have ever used. Put it one when you have found your load, get your data and put it away. That simple and never have to go down range and set anything up.

All of the above, plus mine even catches those little .172" 20-grain bullets at 4,200+ fps out of my .17 Remingtons... something my old Chrony used to have problems seeing.

 

[INTJ]

I have had my Lab Radar since right after they came out. What's that, 6-7 years ago? While there is a learning curve to using it, it is far superior to any other chrono out there right now. My Lab Radar replaced an Oehler 35P.

The trick to using a Lab Radar is to put it in front of the muzzle a few inches and 8-12" laterally. Placed that way I never miss a shot. Putting it in front is especially important if shooting a tactical style brake.

I use rechargeable lithium batteries. If I were to go back to using an external battery pack it would be with a 90 degree magnetic connector.

For use with a suppressor, the Piet external trigger is top notch. I had a JKL but it quickly quit working.

The quickest way to find/tune a load is to shoot 3
to 5 three-shot groups at 600 to 1000 yds, round-robin style, at the same aim-point, with colored bullet tips. Either with sequentially increasing charge weights or seating depths.

 

[Fuj]

The trick to using a Lab Radar is to put it in front of the muzzle a few inches and 8-12" laterally. Placed that way I never miss a shot. Putting it in front is especially important if shooting a tactical style brake

After going into the set up program, and punching in 6" offset. I place
my muzzle even with the edge of the radar and 4 inches away. Missing
a shot is rare using the built in microphone. I have never needed to need
or buy an external trigger. I just had a person at the range all pissed off not
getting pistol shots on his Lab. Did you set it for pistol, I asked ?? Most
people buying one, I swear, never learn, yet know about working with the
set up program then turn around and bad mouth it.

 

[Jwhelan939]

I was going to upgrade my 30 year old shooting chrony, that I got for Christmas when I was like 10, but all of the reviews for the newer units seemed so mixed that I was afraid to shell out the cash. For every positive review of the caldwell, Labrador, and magneto, there are two talking about missed shots, etc. My shooting chrony works great. I use it mostly for 22 lot testing and have had no issues with missed shots. I also use it indoors often for pellet testing.

 

[JFrank]

The quickest way to find/tune a load is to shoot 3
to 5 three-shot groups at 600 to 1000 yds, round-robin style, at the same aim-point, with colored bullet tips. Either with sequentially increasing charge weights or seating depths.

I’m not sure who started the round robin thing but I’ve dropped that layer of complexity, im a happier guy with less BS.

 

[BartsBullets]

As far as a better chronograph the jury is still out but there are two new ones on the market.

BulletSeeker Mach 4

Bulletseeker Mach 4 Ballistic Radar - Solids Solution Designs

Bulletseeker Mach 4 Ballistic Radar allows for more reliable and accurate projectile detection. Outperforming other radars this is the newest type on the market.

www.solidsolutiondesigns.com

AndiScan

AndiScan micro A2/Mark-ii – SQi-AndiX

www.sqi-andix.com

Both come with a healthy price tag.

Bart

 

[INTJ]

I’m not sure who started the round robin thing but I’ve dropped that layer of complexity, im a happier guy with less BS.

The round robin is not BS. It is the only way to avoid a condition making one group artificially better or worse than another. As opposed to having three shots of a group in a good or bad condition, Each shot of all the groups will see that condition.