Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[Dusty Stevens]

Xcel Energy locked it at 78 degs (they can't be perceived to be killing people from heatstroke.) So hang a plastic box on the thermostat. Insert a pocket handwarmer (or a small nuked baggie of rice).

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Thats a great idea. I woulda re-landed some wires but thats simple!

 

[wedgy]

I'm sure you have seen California's brilliant move to electric cars but tell me how that is supposed to work when the grid can't even supply our current demand. Seems CA is in a race to the bottom

 

[rr2030]

I'm sure you have seen California's brilliant move to electric cars but tell me how that is supposed to work when the grid can't even supply our current demand;
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My hopes are that this motivates the Government to repair and upgrade the national grid. I dream of a Nuclear power plant in every state, some states more than one.

For all the rational here, valid or not, the electric vehicles are here to stay, and they are the near future of transportation along with autonomous vehicles.

 

[Brians356]

I dream of a Nuclear power plant in every state, some states more than one.

For all the rational here, valid or not, the electric vehicles are here to stay, and they are the near future of transportation along with autonomous vehicles.

Autonomous vehicles for mass distribution are stillborn (or hadn't you noticed?) It will be several decades if ever before the public will trust them on the roads, nor should they.

EVs are here to stay, sure, but few of us may live long enough for them to amount to as much as 10% of the vehicles on the road nationwide (not excepting semi-trucks). Unless the Sierra Club gets their way and we depopulate by 2/3 to "sustainable" cave-dwelling numbers. The sterile, cute euphemism is "post-modern society". I invite Clubbers to volunteer and sacrifice themselves first.

Nuclear power is great, I'm all for it. In the 1970s anti-nuke (in particular military) became fashionable. Scraggly hari krishna rejects carrying signs loitered outside Puget Sound shipyard in Bremerton, WA. Most local residents either worked in the yard, for base service contractors, or otherwise relied on the base economically. A popular T-shirt around Bremerton read "More Nukes, Less Kooks".
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[284winner]

The Biden administration aims to slash the sale of all gas-powered vehicles to 50% of all new purchases by 2030. That's only 7 yrs 3 mos from now by my reckoning. Of course it ain't going to happen.

For one thing, there's no possibility to produce enough lithium according to Keith Phillips, CEO of Piedmont Lithium, yesterday. "We don’t have enough in the world" he said. Growing demand has caused the price of lithium carbonate to nearly double this year alone, and the IEA projects demand to grow by 40 times in the next two decades, with a majority of that supply coming from outside of the U.S.. With the demand for EVs far outpacing supply and new mining operations working within a five- to 10-year timeline before coming online, the U.S. cannot possibly meet its clean energy targets with the domestic sourcing priority.
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The next administration will aim to destroy the last administrations plans to slash 50% of all new purchases. This has been happening for years when the new president gets the seat in the WH

 

[rr2030]

Autonomous vehicles for mass distribution are stillborn (or hadn't you noticed?) It will be several decades if ever before the public will trust them on the roads, nor should they.

EVs are here to stay, sure, but few of us may live long enough for them to amount to as much as 10% of the vehicles on the road nationwide (not excepting semi-trucks). Unless the Sierra Club gets their way and we depopulate by 2/3 to "sustainable" cave-dwelling numbers. The sterile, cute euphemism is "post-modern society". I invite Clubbers to volunteer and sacrifice themselves first.

Nuclear power is great, I'm all for it. In the 1970s anti-nuke (in particular military) became fashionable. Scraggly hari krishna rejects carrying signs loitered outside Puget Sound shipyard in Bremerton, WA. Most local residents either worked in the yard, for base service contractors, or otherwise relied on the base economically. A popular T-shirt around Bremerton read "More Nukes, Less Kooks".
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I hear ya. However, all the major car manufacturers have committed to all electric vehicles (IE passenger cars/light trucks) by a given date. I don't see them all making the huge financial investment if it were not necessary. People in their 40's will certainly see the end of the gasoline cars sold in the US and Europe.

I have been in multiple classes on newer vehicles from several manufacturers. As far back as 2014 the obvious was stated "this is an autonomous vehicle modified for human intervention" Heard it again in 2016. Now it is pretty much the given.

 

[Brians356]

I hear ya. However, all the major car manufacturers have committed to all electric vehicles (IE passenger cars/light trucks) by a given date. I don't see them all making the huge financial investment if it were not necessary. People in their 40's will certainly see the end of the gasoline cars sold in the US and Europe.

I have been in multiple classes on newer vehicles from several manufacturers. As far back as 2014 the obvious was stated "this is an autonomous vehicle modified for human intervention" Heard it again in 2016. Now it is pretty much the given.

Administrations and corporations come and go. They have opinions; they have intentions; they have plans - all constantly changing with the winds - political or economic. But they all inevitably butt up against something called "reality". I've tried to spotlight some of the reality. For example there are immutable laws of physics. For another there are hard realities of economics. They can be ignored but not avoided.
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[dellet]

I hear ya. However, all the major car manufacturers have committed to all electric vehicles (IE passenger cars/light trucks) by a given date. I don't see them all making the huge financial investment if it were not necessary. People in their 40's will certainly see the end of the gasoline cars sold in the US and Europe.

I have been in multiple classes on newer vehicles from several manufacturers. As far back as 2014 the obvious was stated "this is an autonomous vehicle modified for human intervention" Heard it again in 2016. Now it is pretty much the given.

In the early to mid 90’s Mercedes had autonomous vehicles that were almost market ready. When asked for a release date, the rep very clearly stated, Never.

The reason given was that Germany was/is more litigious than the United States and they would never be able to acquire liability insurance.

Issues at the time were as simple as traffic sign recognition. A car may or may not be able to spot a stop sign and stop the vehicle in time. Something as simple as a vehicle parked obstructing the view could allow the vehicle to miss the sign. I don’t think they imagined gps tracking and google earth mapped streets at the time.

They've also had 30 years to grease the political wheels. If the government mandates the sale and market of a product, it will be impossible for insurance not to cover the liability, or offer the manufacturer immunity. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It’s simply not a naturally developing market, and that will be the most likely reason for failure.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Yeah and they know if they fail the Government, meaning us will bail them out... Their in kahootz.

 

[Brians356]

If the government mandates the sale and market of a product, it will be impossible for insurance not to cover the liability, or offer the manufacturer immunity. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It’s simply not a naturally developing market, and that will be the most likely reason for failure.

Our government cannot mandate the sale and marketing of a product. Can you provide a precedent?
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[Rick300]

Our government cannot mandate the sale and marketing of a product. Can you provide a precedent?
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Yeah, health insurance

 

[dellet]

Our government cannot mandate the sale and marketing of a product. Can you provide a precedent?
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In 1990 the state of California passed a law that mandated a timeline for any auto manufacturers selling cars in California needed to sell a certain percentage of electric vehicles starting with 2% in 1999 and I believe 50% in 2030.

The U.S. Energy Policy Act of 1992, best known for deregulating the energy companies, included much of the same language and time line.

Most/many fuel mileage and emission control laws passed or proclaimed by the environmental protection agency since 1967 should rightly be considered mandates.

When a government, whether by legislation or executive order tells you what you can or can not do or buy, by definition is a mandate.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Yeah, health insurance

Auto insurance

 

[rr2030]

It’s simply not a naturally developing market, and that will be the most likely reason for failure.

Maybe. Although work wise I am immersed in technology, I find that I disable / turn off most of the technology available in my vehicle such as; lane departure avoidance, all the collision cameras including short and long range radars, hepatic seat warnings, etc. I do use the bluetooth, and if necessary the WiFi. The younger generation like all the electronics, and the convinces they bring. Because of that electric /autonomous vehicles have a future, not to mention government mandates.

It's been hot here for the past 3 weeks. A/C has run almost 24/7. I bet my electric bill is north of $500.00 this cycle.

 

[rr2030]

Yeah, health insurance

And COVID vaccines

 

[Brians356]

In 1990 the state of California passed a law that mandated a timeline for any auto manufacturers selling cars in California needed to sell a certain percentage of electric vehicles starting with 2% in 1999 and I believe 50% in 2030.

The U.S. Energy Policy Act of 1992, best known for deregulating the energy companies, included much of the same language and time line.

Most/many fuel mileage and emission control laws passed or proclaimed by the environmental protection agency since 1967 should rightly be considered mandates.

When a government, whether by legislation or executive order tells you what you can or can not do or buy, by definition is a mandate.

The US federal or state government can only stipulate "If you want to sell product X it must meet these standards" or "a percentage of them must meet...". A corporation can always opt not to sell the product at all, rather than go broke trying to meet the standard and still succeeding in the market. I'll say again: government cannot force a company to sell anything.

In other countries, governments have had to nationalize (assume control of) private companies to meet their economic goals. For example the UK has nationalized many industrial companies such as British Steel, Rolls-Royce, British Leyland, British Aerospace, and British Telecom to name just a few.

In the US, peacetime and post-WW II nationalizations have been rare, temporary and mostly involved financial institutions or transportation systems in distress, and "too big to fail" measures in the financial crisis of 2009.

There are Democrats right now saying that to address the so-called "climate crisis" government will have to nationalize pretty much everything, that the carrot-and-stick with private industry can never accomplish the task.
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[Brians356]

Yeah, health insurance

Nope. Insurance companies worked with the Obama administration and congressional Democrats to iron out terms favorable to both. Insurance companies were always free to opt out if the terms were not amenable, but the terms were always going to keep them in the money, because they were critical to the framework of "Obamacare".
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[Brians356]

Auto insurance

Sigh. "Et tu, Brute?"
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[Dusty Stevens]

Nope. Insurance companies worked with the Obama administration and congressional Democrats to iron out terms favorable to both. Insurance companies were always free to opt out if the terms were not amenable, but the terms were always going to keep them in the money, because they were critical to the framework of "Obamacare".
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So youre saying you can go without health insurance, with no penalty?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Sigh. "Et tu, Brute?"
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Yes, i get a penalty if i drive without auto insurance of some type.