Skim Bedding

[harro]

I have a Howa 1500 and have a Bell and Carlson Competition Stock coming for it .
I have read on numerous occasions people recommending that Skim Bedding is a good idea even if the stock has an aluminium bedding block in it .
Now I understand and have owned a fully bedding action/ stock but could someone explain “ Skim Bedding “ and what areas of the action are you bedding , and how hard is it do on a Howa/Bell and Carlson combo ?
I suppose I should also ask , Is it really necessary on an aluminium block ?

Thanks

Ken

 

[Toofastforu]

I have a Howa 1500 and have a Bell and Carlson Competition Stock coming for it .
I have read on numerous occasions people recommending that Skim Bedding is a good idea even if the stock has an aluminium bedding block in it .
Now I understand and have owned a fully bedding action/ stock but could someone explain “ Skim Bedding “ and what areas of the action are you bedding , and how hard is it do on a Howa/Bell and Carlson combo ?
I suppose I should also ask , Is it really necessary on an aluminium block ?

Thanks

Ken

Ken, skim bedding is roughing up the alumnium with say 120 grit and then applying a thin layer of epoxy/bedding so it contours to the action perfect. Is it necessary? Well depends on how the gun shoots once you install it. Obviously we like to always think the most uniform bedding provides us the best chance. Uniform meaning the action touching the stock with no pressure points. However it may shoot great bolted in as is and not shoot not one bit better “skim bedded”. Skim bedding isnt as involved but all necessary steps still have to be taken in order for a clean release. I’m not as familiar with the Bell and Carlson in relation to the Howa specifically but as a general rule your not always guaranteed an improvement….it’s just you hope to eliminate that as a reason for why it might not shoot

 

[harro]

Ken, skim bedding is roughing up the alumnium with say 120 grit and then applying a thin layer of epoxy/bedding so it contours to the action perfect. Is it necessary? Well depends on how the gun shoots once you install it. Obviously we like to always think the most uniform bedding provides us the best chance. Uniform meaning the action touching the stock with no pressure points. However it may shoot great bolted in as is and not shoot not one bit better “skim bedded”. Skim bedding isnt as involved but all necessary steps still have to be taken in order for a clean release. I’m not as familiar with the Bell and Carlson in relation to the Howa specifically but as a general rule your not always guaranteed an improvement….it’s just you hope to eliminate that as a reason for why it might not shoot

Thanks for the reply .
I’ll definitely be trying it before going down the Skim Bedding route.
I was just interested in what areas the bedding compound is used when Skim Bedding. I thought it must just be in the recoil lug and action screw locations .
It will be interesting to see how well the Bell and Carlson has been made and to what tolerances they have made the Aluminium block .

Cheers

Ken

 

[Fuj]

I shoot chassis stocks and do not bed. What I do is to take
a piece of tubing that's wrapped in crocus cloth and do a
few swipes in the block to remove any burrs, and check for
high spots.

 

[Laurie]

I shoot chassis stocks and do not bed. What I do is to take
a piece of tubing that's wrapped in crocus cloth and do a
few swipes in the block to remove any burrs, and check for
high spots.

Another take on that approach for metal to metal contact set-ups, one advocated by Gary Eliseo (Competition Machine tube and chassis stocks) .... @gme on this forum ..... is to put the stock in a vice and work the action to and fro with valve grinding paste or any other suitable abrasive between them until you have a couple of evenly coloured gray tracks on both action and the stock bedding areas. (This may not be possible thanks to fixed recoil lugs on many designs of course.)

Sometimes some form of bedding is unavoidable. Some years back at the very start of F-Class, Sinclair International in its pre Brownells takeover days, put a very nice looking chassis target stock on the market as a bolt-in Rem 700 footprint design. IIRC, the actual bedding used machined-in V-blocks. It didn't last as it didn't work well, or at least didn't work well with Remington Arms produced 700 actions, simply because their dimensions were so variable and outside dimensions so inconsistent, that they literally 'fitted where they touched', ie only on a few high-spots with a too small total area.

 

[CharlieNC]

You should check clearance beneath the recoil lug, and bed the backside to assure proper fit. This is a primary problem area.

 

[rijndael]

I would also recommend looking for a slight bevel on the bedding block to recoil lug cut-out. If it's a sharp 90 degree cut, you may find the action can slightly hang up there.

 

[AlNyhus]

I have a Howa 1500 and have a Bell and Carlson Competition Stock coming for it .
I have read on numerous occasions people recommending that Skim Bedding is a good idea even if the stock has an aluminium bedding block in it .
Now I understand and have owned a fully bedding action/ stock but could someone explain “ Skim Bedding “ and what areas of the action are you bedding , and how hard is it do on a Howa/Bell and Carlson combo ?
I suppose I should also ask , Is it really necessary on an aluminium block ? Thanks Ken

Ken, as regards 'skim' bedding (either with or w/o a bedding clock).....I'm not a fan of it. Any quality bedding compound needs an adequate thickness for both stability and durability and a 'skim' coat just doesn't provide that.

As regards the Howa 1500 (and others where the action screw goes into the bottom of the recoil lug) , the fit of the bottom of the recoil lug to the bottom of the recoil lug mortise is critical to accuracy and repeatability.

A bedding block stock that's been on the barrelled action will have some visual clues as far as contact. On a new bedding block stock, my suggestion is to use a magnetic base dial indicator set up in this manner to see how much movement you have when the action screws are cracked loose. This will allow you to evaluate both how the action fits in the block and how the recoil lugs bottom fits the bottom of the mortise.

Then you can make a decision on bedding.

Just how I do it.....-Al

 

[NETim]

I am far from an authority on bedding a rifle, skim or otherwise. But I'll offer this, a tip I picked up here when I was looking for input on bedding my Remmy 700 into an H&S Precision stock (w/an aluminum bedding block). I got some 1/4" ID nylon bushings and put them in the action screw holes in the stock while the epoxy set. This kept the action screws centered up in the holes so they couldn't make contact with the stock when it was all said and done. Naturally, I removed the bushings when I was all done with the job.

 

[Laurie]

As regards the Howa 1500 (and others where the action screw goes into the bottom of the recoil lug) , the fit of the bottom of the recoil lug to the bottom of the recoil lug mortise is critical to accuracy and repeatability.

Which means in practical terms for limited DIY bedding?

 

[harro]

Ken, as regards 'skim' bedding (either with or w/o a bedding clock).....I'm not a fan of it. Any quality bedding compound needs an adequate thickness for both stability and durability and a 'skim' coat just doesn't provide that.

As regards the Howa 1500 (and others where the action screw goes into the bottom of the recoil lug) , the fit of the bottom of the recoil lug to the bottom of the recoil lug mortise is critical to accuracy and repeatability.

A bedding block stock that's been on the barrelled action will have some visual clues as far as contact. On a new bedding block stock, my suggestion is to use a magnetic base dial indicator set up in this manner to see how much movement you have when the action screws are cracked loose. This will allow you to evaluate both how the action fits in the block and how the recoil lugs bottom fits the bottom of the mortise.

Then you can make a decision on bedding.

Just how I do it.....-Al

That makes sense , in particular the dial indicator .

Cheers

Ken

 

[CharlieNC]

That action screw in the recoil lug certainly does change things.

 

[AlNyhus]

Which means in practical terms for limited DIY bedding?

Any action like this should have this checked out as step #1 to evaluating the bedding...whether the stock has a bedding block or pillars. On recoil lugs that have the action screw threaded into them, hard contact to the bottom of the recoil lug mortise is a must. If there's any clearance between the bottom of the lug and the floor of the mortise, the action will be stressed as the action screw is tightened. Of course, clearance between the two surfaces is easily corrected when doing a bedding job.

On actions that don't have the screw into the bottom of the lug, you need clearance between the two surfaces.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Laurie]

On recoil lugs that have the action screw threaded into them, hard contact to the bottom of the recoil lug mortise is a must.

Thanks Al, that's very helpful. I have a 6.5 Grendel Howa Mini in an Oryx stock and wondered if it needed hard contact or a gap is required. (It groups well for a not very heavy factory barrel with loads it likes, but I have noticed a distinct tendency for shots to print lower as the barrel heats and had wondered if this was bedding issue or simply hammer-forged barrel behaviour similar to that I've seen in the past.)