Barrel TQ and Headspace Crush Measurements

[wkdickinson]

Having read this entire thread, I find it interesting that the person/business being trashed/questioned here hasn't stepped forward to defend themselves. But then again, maybe they don't watch this forum. Many who truly "know" the answers, don't bother themselves with the opinions of those misguided people who disagree.

 

[dnellans]

We shouldn’t expect some random biz owner to be monitoring our little corner of the gunsmithing internet and responding. That’s just not fair play.

I am however still waiting for the lathe setup picture on how someone in this thread is regularly working to 10 millions, as claimed earlier. I’m willing to keep and open mind, just because I can’t afford to do it doesn’t mean someone else can’t.

I personally only know one person who works first hand at and below the tolerances being touted. He has the backing of the federal government in a lab you and I aren’t allowed to go anywhere close to however.

 

[STS]

I've spent the last couple of days wondering where this fellow got the spindle bearings for his lathe.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

We shouldn’t expect some random biz owner to be monitoring our little corner of the gunsmithing internet and responding. That’s just not fair play.

I am however still waiting for the lathe setup picture on how someone in this thread is regularly working to 10 millions, as claimed earlier. I’m willing to keep and open mind, just because I can’t afford to do it doesn’t mean someone else can’t.

I personally only know one person who works first hand at and below the tolerances being touted. He has the backing of the federal government in a lab you and I aren’t allowed to go anywhere close to however.

I can't tell anyone that the guy isn't working to the stated tolerances but will say two things. One is that it's very unlikely and two is that I'm not sure $7000 would buy half of a gun built to those tolerances. It gets expensive to work to those tolerances and frankly, very few people have the ability nor the equipment to do so. If all of his surfaces are held to the "millionths"...$7000 is a bargain. Order up!

 

[Tokay444]

I’m an applications engineer and work with companies large and small from every facet of the manufacturing realm. Automotive, aerospace, nuclear, defence, etc.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Having read this entire thread, I find it interesting that the person/business being trashed/questioned here hasn't stepped forward to defend themselves. But then again, maybe they don't watch this forum. Many who truly "know" the answers, don't bother themselves with the opinions of those misguided people who disagree.

You know the one sane guy in a town of idiots must have looked like an idiot to the idiots.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

It said somewhere in my research he employs MIT graduates to build these guns.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've spent the last couple of days wondering where this fellow got the spindle bearings for his lathe.

That's a good point but there is a lot more than good bearings that make it very doubtful. Simple things like tool deflection for one and as someone mentioned earlier..surface finish is more than his tolerances allow for, alone. Not to mention a controlled environment for all tooling and measuring equipment..and their calibration. Anybody have any gage blocks (micrometer standards for checking mics) they want to sell that are certified to these standards? There are simply so many things that are REQUIRED to work to those tolerances that the time and overhead make $7000 for a rifle built to those standards the deal of the day!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That's a good point but there is a lot more than good bearings that make it very doubtful. Simple things like tool deflection for one and as someone mentioned earlier..surface finish is more than his tolerances allow for, alone. Not to mention a controlled environment for all tooling and measuring equipment..and their calibration. Anybody have any gage blocks (micrometer standards for checking mics) they want to sell that are certified to these standards? There are simply so many things that are REQUIRED to work to those tolerances that the time and overhead make $7000 for a rifle built to those standards the deal of the day!

I have some of those standards with about 6 decimal places nist certified for indicating micrometers. If i actually touch the metal you can see the needle move

 

[Tokay444]

That's a good point but there is a lot more than good bearings that make it very doubtful. Simple things like tool deflection for one and as someone mentioned earlier..surface finish is more than his tolerances allow for, alone. Not to mention a controlled environment for all tooling and measuring equipment..and their calibration. Anybody have any gage blocks (micrometer standards for checking mics) they want to sell that are certified to these standards? There are simply so many things that are REQUIRED to work to those tolerances that the time and overhead make $7000 for a rifle built to those standards the deal of the day!

Again, his tolerance is 50 millionths. Not that crazy in the machining world.

 

[dnellans]

I’m an applications engineer and work with companies large and small from every facet of the manufacturing realm. Automotive, aerospace, nuclear, defence, etc.

I mean being a engineer is great and all, but what does that have to do with gunsmithing and lathe work? You represented that you are regularly “work at” 10 millionths. Show me the lathe!

In real life I’m actually a computer engineer working at 3 nanometer these days… these millionths are child’s play I tell you! Except that has nothing to do with my $3000 grizzly lathe, $200 mitutoyo .0001 indicator, and $279 community college course in “professional machining”!

 

[kendog]

Again, his tolerance is 50 millionths. Not that crazy in the machining world.

I cut my firewood in the millionths. Just move the decimal til it jives with the story...

 

[Tokay444]

I mean being a engineer is great and all, but what does that have to do with gunsmithing and lathe work? You represented that you are regularly “work at” 10 millionths. Show me the lathe!

In real life I’m a computer engineer working at 3 nanometer these days… these millionths are child’s play I tell you!

Except that has nothing to do with my $3000 grizzly lathe, $200 mitutoyo .0001 indicator, and $279 community college course in “professional machining”!

Did I say I work to 10 millionths as a gunsmith?

 

[dnellans]

Did I say I work to 10 millionths as a gunsmith?

You have clearly said you regularly work at 10 millionths and that mike the tac-ops guy in question works at 2 millionths. Now we're at Mike working at +- .00005 (which I still probably don't believe) and you not working -at all- in the most likely case.

I've heard enough on this thread, how do I unsubscribe from my own post?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You have clearly said you regularly work at 10 millionths and that mike the tac-ops guy in question works at 2 millionths. I've heard enough on this thread, how do I unsubscribe from my own post?

Dont leave just yet!

 

[Tokay444]

You have clearly said you regularly work at 10 millionths and that mike the tac-ops guy in question works at 2 millionths. Now we're at Mike working at +- .00005 (which I still probably don't believe) and you not working -at all- in the most likely case.

I've heard enough on this thread, how do I unsubscribe from my own post?

I never said Mike works to 2 millionths and I never said I’m a gunsmith. Go back and read the thread. It’s all there.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I mean being a engineer is great and all, but what does that have to do with gunsmithing and lathe work? You represented that you are regularly “work at” 10 millionths. Show me the lathe!

In real life I’m a computer engineer working at 3 nanometer these days… these millionths are child’s play I tell you!

Except that has nothing to do with my $3000 grizzly lathe, $200 mitutoyo .0001 indicator, and $279 community college course in “professional machining”!

Oh, are we dealing with an engineer here or a machinist? The difference is huge! One works actually knows what machining to these tolerances entails and the other one often has no idea where the switch on the lathe is. It's very common. Engineers draw blueprints, machinists make them work.

 

[Tokay444]

I’m both.

 

[butchlambert]

I’m both.

Then you should know better.

 

[338 Mollett]

WOW ! I did not know that the LODTM machine could be used for gunsmithing !