Theoretically perfect receiver?

[std7mag]

So, in bolt action receivers, there are basically 2 forms.
One with front locking lugs.
And one with rear locking lugs.
Either way, one end of the bolt is left "free hanging".

Would a bolt that locked at both the front and the rear be possible?
My line of thinking, is it would provide more support than allowing one end of the bolt unsupported.

Thoughts?

 

[Uthink Uknow]

I think what you are after is a Borden Action. It is a front lug action and Jim has come up with the Borden Bump. This is a ring area on the bolt that is closer to the inside diameter of the action and this supports the bolt at the rear of the bolt or action.

 

[DaveTooley]

As complexity increases a higher degree weirdness, individuality and uncertainty creeps in.
KISS

 

[Big Mc]

So, in bolt action receivers, there are basically 2 forms.
One with front locking lugs.
And one with rear locking lugs.
Either way, one end of the bolt is left "free hanging".

Would a bolt that locked at both the front and the rear be possible?
My line of thinking, is it would provide more support than allowing one end of the bolt unsupported.

Thoughts?

Dave is on the right track .. Tommy Mc

 

[JMayo]

I understand 3 lug actions are not preferred over 2 lug.
Would this reasoning not be the same with an extra lug no matter where ?

Idk I've never had one.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I understand 3 lug actions are not preferred over 2 lug.
Would this reasoning not be the same with an extra lug no matter where ?

Idk I've never had one.

When Bat came out with their 3-lug, every body marveled at it. Short bolt throw meant quicker loading, faster shooting.

except the old law of physics and diminishing returns stepped in. Less bolt travel meant less mechanical advantage. Stiffer bolt with upper end loads.

I remember top shooters at a particular Nationals grimacing when their customary high pressure loads were resulting in darned near jerking the rifle out of the bags as they tried to run a condition.

Great idea on paper.

 

[DaveTooley]

Everything is a compromise. Be careful what you wish for. It might not be what you expected. I have an old BAT with a screw in firing pin assembly. You've heard " From my cold dead hands"

 

[jackieschmidt]

Everything is a compromise. Be careful what you wish for. It might not be what you expected. I have an old BAT with a screw in firing pin assembly. You've heard " From my cold dead hands"

I think the world of Bruce and the greatworkmanship they put into their product…….

But they should never have abandoned the screw in shroud.

 

[cuznguido]

Why does no one ever bring Weatherby into this kind of discussion?

 

[Cbashooter]

I think what you are after is a Borden Action. It is a front lug action and Jim has come up with the Borden Bump. This is a ring area on the bolt that is closer to the inside diameter of the action and this supports the bolt at the rear of the bolt or action.

Many accurized Remington 700 rifles had the bolt "bushed" to do the same thing 30 or so years ago.It was pretty common

 

[CJ6]

Why does no one ever bring Weatherby into this kind of discussion?

Getting 9 lugs lapped is a PTA.

 

[rijndael]

If it’s theoretically perfect, you don’t need to lap it.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Why does no one ever bring Weatherby into this kind of discussion?

The whole concept of the Weatherby Mark 5 was strength to handle the Weatherby chamberings. The nine locking lug arrangement gave a much shorter bolt throw as well.

That being said, has it ever been proved if nine tiny locking lugs were actually any stronger than two large ones?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why does no one ever bring Weatherby into this kind of discussion?

You ever seen one used to make a custom gun more than a couple of outliers?

 

[Tommie]

The whole concept of the Weatherby Mark 5 was strength to handle the Weatherby chamberings. The nine locking lug arrangement gave a much shorter bolt throw as well.

That being said, has it ever been proved if nine tiny locking lugs were actually any stronger than two large ones?

Years ago I read an article regarding this very subject. Most of it was way over my head but yes, the nine small lugs are stronger. The article made an analogy involving machine screws with fine threads being stronger than coarse threads even though the course threads are “larger”.

And there ya had it. A successfully derailed thread.

 

[Ray123]

I think what you are after is a Borden Action. It is a front lug action and Jim has come up with the Borden Bump. This is a ring area on the bolt that is closer to the inside diameter of the action and this supports the bolt at the rear of the bolt or action.

Yes , I did the so called Borden bumps, on a 700 Remington. Bore the bolt raceway, I added titanium bushings, turned them down for a slip fit then relieved the bushings on the non lock sides of the bolt on fore and aft bushings. It works great, absolutely no movement on a dial indicator when the trued bolt and reciever are in locked position. The gun was accurate. Anymore accurate than not doing it? I don't know, my marksmanship probably not good enough to tell. I haven't done it since, but I can when ever I want. I get satisfactory accuracy for me by not boring the reciever raceway, and bushing the bolt. For those who don't want to bush the bolt but want the same can bore the raceway and order the 700 bolt with the correct diameter from pacific tool and gauge.
I would not do it on a combat or hunting gun, as there is almost no clearance between the bolt diameter and the raceway diameter...a little debris dirt might be a problem...a hair that falls out of your beard might lock up your bolt...on a hunt of a lifetime...or worse. But its fine for you target types, a little more time consuming so the price will go up...but it's not hard to do. Worth it... hell if I know, but I got a super tight action when the lugs are in the lock position.

 

[DaveTooley]

Why does no one ever bring Weatherby into this kind of discussion?

How would you go about truing up the receiver and the multiple lugs on the bolt? Not to mention availability of any after market parts.

 

[Will Henry]

I think the closest to the perfect receiver that I ever used was the Wichita Mini action. Short bolt with the bearing point of the three locking lugs being near the middle of the bolt. No port or cut out. Shell holder bolt. Rigid and concentric.
By the way, I think it was established that the Weatherby nine-lug system produced more contact area than the Remington 700 but less shear strength. WH

 

[Eagle1899]

American Rifle Company uses toroidal lugs(three and two lug, interchangeable for size) and the rear of the bolt has an alignment ring. They are not benchrest actions but field and competition(PRS) actions. They function and shoot really well.

 

[Eraser]

As complexity increases a higher degree weirdness, individuality and uncertainty creeps in.
KISS

What do mean by this?