AR guys? selling w/o BCG

[yotehater]

I can't understand why the used uppers are almost always for sale without the bolt carrier group. After all the break in wear to the locking lugs and barrel extension why separate them? If you like that brand or style of bolt why not just buy another new one instead of putting a worn bolt in a new barrel? You never see a bolt action receiver for sale without the bolt.

 

[Fast14riot]

Probably because you see many new uppers for sale without the bcg or charge handle, they're probably just rolling it over to the new one.

But, I can't recall seeing used uppers for sale without a bcg, at least in the match and hunting specific AR groups and boards I belong to.

 

[BountyHunter]

I see them all the time without BCG on just about every forum.

 

[jepp2]

If you like that brand or style of bolt why not just buy another new one instead of putting a worn bolt in a new barrel?

If, the person was using a premium BCG in their uppper, there is no way the increase in selling price would pay for an identical BCG new replacement. Some of the upper end BCG's can run over $200.

The selling price of a bolt action rifle without a bolt would be much, much lower. The market value of bolt from a bolt action rifle is way below what the cost penalty for the rifle without the bolt would be.

 

[yotehater]

I can understand selling it for more with the BCG. What I don't like is having additional headspace wearing in another bolt or barrel extension. I see those without a BCG as a potential problem.

 

[jwink]

In my experience with the AR platform, unless you have some extremely worn parts there are no issues as long as you spec out everything to MIL spec. Remember this type of rifle is designed to run when it's full of mud and muddy water ( think jungles ), it isn't a 700 platform, nor should one expect it to run the same tolerances. I personally have switched out 3 different bare and plated BCGs in my AR with no effect on accuracy and they all function just fine. ps, it takes one heck of a lot of shooting to wear out at parts to the limit of specs in the first place.

 

[mac86951]

Bolt carrier and key, I can understand keeping those; but why not sell the barrel with headspaced bolt? MIL spec or not; I'll check headspace, but new barrel will be a new bolt too. Bolt is one item I dont want to fail.

-Mac

 

[Iowa Fox]

My son and I were at the gun show last weekend. I pointed out to him all the vendors selling brand new uppers less bolt group and charging handle.

 

[Fast14riot]

Bcg and charging handle are probably the most often swapped out parts of uppers, many people I know have a certain brand of bolt and charging handle they like and have them in every gun and caliber. I run an LMT enhanced bolt in one of my match guns, $180 for a new bolt only will never be realized out of a sale of the upper, let alone the $250+ for a complete bcg when a standard phosphate bolt in .420 bolt face is $60.

If after 10K rounds you have a headspace issue there is something else seriously wrong, 7 lugs simply do not wear like two lugs, especially on smaller cartridges like AR15 sized rounds.

In the circles I run, I can't recall the last time I saw a complete upper for sale without bolt on the secondary market, usually I will see a barrel for sale or an upper parted out, but not a complete upper minus bcg.

Maybe in the larger general purpose boards like barfcom or gunbroker, but certainly not on the match or hunting boards. But then again, those typically are different types of sellers to begin with.

 

[dryhumor]

If I got it without a bolt, or built it, I'd likely sell it without.

I have more uppers than BCGs, and while they tend to stay with each other, a couple I'll trade back and forth. No issues with head spacing, though I'm not shooting high volume either.

 

[Jet]

If you are getting a used AR bolt always inspect the lugs in the exact area you see the sheared lug in the pic below. I replace around 10 bolts a year on carbines/rifles at work and it's the lug on the right of the extractor that fails. Hairline crack will develop prior to separation. I can only remember one time when a lug other than the one described failed. If you understand the cycle of operation you will see why this one fails over others.

 

[yotehater]

About the only ones for sell locally with the bolt are the 6.5 to 7.62x39 ones which makes sense. Maybe it is just me but I can't get out without thinking it could be a problem like has been shearing bolts or reached headspace limits. Thanks for the responses. Dfw armslist has mostly used uppers w/o a mated bolt in 223.

 

[Kurz]

You never see a bolt action receiver for sale without the bolt.

First things first.

If you check the classified ads here you will frequently see the bolt action receiver body for sale separate from the bolt and then the bolt for sale separately. The only time I've seen a bolt action rifle for sale without a bolt was when the bolt was lost on a hunt and not retrieved.

I can't understand why the used uppers are almost always for sale without the bolt carrier group.

I was bothered by this the first few times I read ads listing an upper without the BCG but after a little reflection, the obvious answer is that the uppers were nothing special, just one of the overwhelming, generic variations available from commercial assemblers where it would be easy to just replace the BCG without problems. Most of these BCGs are available for around $80.00 through the bulk suppliers.

I suppose you can conjure up some other explanation for not selling the used upper complete but it sure makes no sense to me. If you don't trust the bolt, buy a new one and get on with your shooting. When I've seen new uppers for sale though, the companies are trying to make a price point by leaving out the BCG in an effort to make the upper an attractive buy and compete with the cheaper efforts from others.

The exception, to my way of thinking though is when I build, (yes, I build I don't assemble tinker toys) I will often select some parts like the BCG for special purposes or for a specific use. These parts will always go with the upper if sold.

On the other hand, I can see where someone will want to keep a BCG like the JP Enhanced groups which sell for upwards of $450.00 each. These get to be difficult to justify re-buying every time you want to start a new build for personal use.

Regards.

 

[jwink]

If you are getting a used AR bolt always inspect the lugs in the exact area you see the sheared lug in the pic below. I replace around 10 bolts a year on carbines/rifles at work and it's the lug on the left of the extractor that fails. Hairline crack will develop prior to separation. I can only remember one time when a lug other than the one described failed. If you understand the cycle of operation you will see why this one fails over others.View attachment 993778

Jet, do have any information about those bolts on what is actually the cause of breakage? Over gassing? running Tula? running 5.56 instead of .223 in a non mil spec, (5000 CUP difference)? thanks, Jim

 

[Jet]

Jim

All mil spec parts used on military rifles/carbines shooting mil ammo shot by GIs. The lugs are a complete ring of steel except for the area where the extractor is milled out. The lugs to the left and right of the extractor are only supported by steel on one side. The hairline cracks start on the left side forward edge of the 2nd lug (as viewed by looking at the bolt face clockwise) and migrates towards the 1st lug. The first lug doesn't have the strength of the others so it is the path of least resistance (slight flex).

I'm not a metal guy. I only train GIs and repair their weapons. I don't believe the tech manuals specifically address this lug (I'll look next week at work) but I can tell you from observing millions of rounds fired through ARs and repairing them this is my experience. We are required to keep detailed logs on all our firearms and have a database that tracks rounds fired, by who, and what specific maintenance has been done to them. I've seen lugs shear as early as 3,000 rds. Also have lugs that have 40,000 rds on them and they are still fine.

Edited: Got my clock direction backwards

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[yotehater]

Thank you for the information jet. I always keep my builds together and won't worry about it reading your experience on them. Do you ever see the barrel extension fail?

 

[Jet]

Thank you for the information jet. I always keep my builds together and won't worry about it reading your experience on them. Do you ever see the barrel extension fail?

Don't recall one. They get replaced when we change barrels (usually around 12,000 rds).

 

[jwink]

Thanks Rich, In my business (metal fabrication), I have found that chrome-moly must be heat treated correctly or failure will certainly follow. Too soft and the part wears too fast, too hard and it's to brittle. Your experience tells me that there may be room for improvement to the bolt extractor and/or the bolt lugs. Now I have to go look at mine and see if there is any bad stuff happening. Rich, Thanks again for the info. Jim