F-Open: 300 WM?

[Sandstorm]

you had Berger 195s blow up on you in your SAUM during a big match,

I dont recall anyone loosing any A-Tips on the way to the target recently...now thers always a first
for everything, and with that much powder I would not bet against it.

 

[std7mag]

Mayhaps i should start a separate thread to ask this, but i'll throw it out here.

Your planning on a heavy, high BC bullet.
But is there a point where a lighter, still decent BC bullet at a faster velocity is a fair trade off?

 

[mike mccormick]

I think that the 300WM, given the amount of powder burnt, along with the quick firing pace normally seen in f class, will get hotter than a barrel and bullets will tolerate. A 300WM, fired at a reasonable pace, has a pretty decent barrel life. Fire 22 rounds in around 10 minutes and I feel certain the erosion will be prohibitive.

 

[sdean]

Mayhaps i should start a separate thread to ask this, but i'll throw it out here.

Your planning on a heavy, high BC bullet.
But is there a point where a lighter, still decent BC bullet at a faster velocity is a fair trade off?

Give David sometime. He will prove or disprove all these theories. He hasn't been ashamed to show his results.

 

[whatwind?]

6.5 rsaum and 7 saum are being made by ADG right now and 300wsm is to follow, so buy as much as creedmoor sports will let you, buy both and just neck up if the 7 sells out

they have given out their production schedule and have stayed on it, so just a little more patience and you will be good

 

[davidjoe]

Your issue will be barrel heat when shooting your typical 20 shot strings - bad enough you get unlimited sighters which just adds to the problem. Cartridges like the 7SAUM are popular in Australia as we don't have 20 shot strings, at most we have 15, and even allowing for our summer's, a 7SAUM is ok as we are only allowed 2 sighters, so a max of 17 going down the barrel during string fire in big matches is ok.

I recall you had Berger 195s blow up on you in your SAUM during a big match, where you had fired more than 20 shots with a few sighters already being fired. Now bearing that in mind, if you're going to stuff well over 70 grains of powder into a 300WM and hope it saves you a point or two over a match, just remember how many points it will cost you if your bullets don't make it to the target. I'm all for experimentation in this sport, but I'd be applying some risk management here too - can you safely get say 22-30 rounds down a barrel burning 75gr of powder per shot with a 250gr pill and not suffer ill consequences?

I have blown up 7’s. All in Saums, none in .284’s. I’d rate their order of fragility from most to least, 180 ELDM’s, big, big gap, 180 Hybrids, 180 scenars, 195 EOL’s.

Surprisingly to me, no 190 A-tips have blown up yet in a saum despite 4 season use and several barrels, now. We don’t hear much about 30’s blowing up though, but everything smaller than 7’s regularly do, it seems, in a hot/long barrel.

I’m not sure I can recall any accounts if 30’s blowing up, definitely not by TR, but any, otherwise? My experience with 30’s is limited. I’ve shot more .338 than 30.

… I definitely feel a fast, heavy 7 shoots inside both 30 WSM, and even “reasonable” .338 LM Fclass loads. I don’t know how it would compare to a 250, though. My suspicion is that any more than 100 FPS spot will favor the saum. With the saum I think I’m making smaller calls on the pair fire portion of all the Bayou V2 matches, than everyone I have shot against in 2021. It’s the 7 Saum brass limitation that kills me. Even though I have a lot with remaining pocket life, I feel brass gets progressively “less accurate” such that the last couple of firings in saum brass probably could be beaten with new .284 brass fresh barrel combo.

 

[davidjoe]

I think that the 300WM, given the amount of powder burnt, along with the quick firing pace normally seen in f class, will get hotter than a barrel and bullets will tolerate. A 300WM, fired at a reasonable pace, has a pretty decent barrel life. Fire 22 rounds in around 10 minutes and I feel certain the erosion will be prohibitive.

I’d be looking at more like 22 or a max of 25 shots in a couple minutes short of the long range time limit, usually 30 minutes. But definitely agree that barrel wear needs to be better, if possible, not worse, than a 7 saum.

 

[swd]

I’d be looking at more like 22 or a max of 25 shots in a couple minutes short of the long range time limit, usually 30 minutes. But definitely agree that barrel wear needs to be better, if possible, not worse, than a 7 saum.

I’d be looking at N165 or H1000 for cooler barrel temps if you can get decent speed and accuracy

 

[Wingnut00]

I think that the 300WM, given the amount of powder burnt, along with the quick firing pace normally seen in f class, will get hotter than a barrel and bullets will tolerate. A 300WM, fired at a reasonable pace, has a pretty decent barrel life. Fire 22 rounds in around 10 minutes and I feel certain the erosion will be prohibitive.

I used to shoot a 300 for a kinda prs style competition and shot way more rounds than that in 10 minutes. I ran 230’s at a smidge over 2900 in a 10 twist and never lost a bullet. That specific competition was kinda designed to torture test your equipment which we did. Had barrels so hot you could not touch em.

 

[std7mag]

I have blown up 7’s. All in Saums, none in .284’s. I’d rate their order of fragility from most to least, 180 ELDM’s, big, big gap, 180 Hybrids, 180 scenars, 195 EOL’s.

Surprisingly to me, no 190 A-tips have blown up yet in a saum despite 4 season use and several barrels, now. We don’t hear much about 30’s blowing up though, but everything smaller than 7’s regularly do, it seems, in a hot/long barrel.

I’m not sure I can recall any accounts if 30’s blowing up, definitely not by TR, but any, otherwise? My experience with 30’s is limited. I’ve shot more .338 than 30.

… I definitely feel a fast, heavy 7 shoots inside both 30 WSM, and even “reasonable” .338 LM Fclass loads. I don’t know how it would compare to a 250, though. My suspicion is that any more than 100 FPS spot will favor the saum. With the saum I think I’m making smaller calls on the pair fire portion of all the Bayou V2 matches, than everyone I have shot against in 2021. It’s the 7 Saum brass limitation that kills me. Even though I have a lot with remaining pocket life, I feel brass gets progressively “less accurate” such that the last couple of firings in saum brass probably could be beaten with new .284 brass fresh barrel combo.

So i should contact you for used SAUM cases? Lol

No, seriously....

 

[Bill Clifton]

Or perhaps the negatives outweigh the slight BC edge?

This^ Erik and many top shooters he's interviewed have essentially said it if not came right out and said it.

But that said it does work for others he's interviewed and they continue to use magnums but they certainly seem to be the minority. Everything has settled in on the 284 or variants for they seem to be the happy medium with good ballistics and handling aspects.

 

[oldroper]

I'm following along, awaiting on a range report.

I'm all for experimenting and not following the "norms".

I got into short range bench rest last year.
When i mentioned about building a rifle specifically for that, (local matches for fun only, i have no aspirations on being a National shooter) i was told "buy a known winning rifle, from a known smith, in 6BR. Because that's what everyone is shooting.".

That's not me.
So i'm building a 250 Savage on a Savage Axis action.
If it shoots patterns instead of groups, well that's on me.
If it does well, then....

Their is big difference between F Class and Open.

 

[davidjoe]

This^ Erik and many top shooters he's interviewed have essentially said it if not came right out and said it.

But that said it does work for others he's interviewed and they continue to use magnums but they certainly seem to be the minority. Everything has settled in on the 284 or variants for they seem to be the happy medium with good ballistics and handling aspects.

I’m not sure that for long range, just about all shot from 1,000 now, that it’s a which-one-gun works best choice, anymore. The expected wind may determine the iron picked.

It’s a safe bet that every magnum shooter we could ask, has .284 barrels and rounds ready to go, and that at least half of the .284 shooters have a magnum ready to go, such that we that shoot LR F-Class in open are technically all .284 shooters.

V2 pair firing has changed things up, here. A shooter is not in control of his pace of fire. His partner has more to do with when he gets to shoot, and how fast, than he does. You cannot wait 5 minutes for your condition to return. The two quickest shooters, paired, would still need three times their individual normal increment to write, scores, and fire, so the slickest, smoothest running “bench” style rig is a bit diminished in what it brings to the table, relatively speaking, and a rifle that drives a straighter line at an undesirable time to shoot, also has a longer built in period to recover, while the other guy shoots, which was part of its drawback in string fire but now, is not. Pair firing is the world’s standard and does have the benefit of forcing wind calls to be made that would otherwise be waited out.

 

[Rope2horns]

It’s a safe bet that every magnum shooter we could ask, has .284 barrels and rounds ready to go, and that at least half of the .284 shooters have a magnum ready to go, such that we that shoot LR F-Class in open are technically all .284 shooters.

My 284 is a - Shehane
My magnum is a - Shehane

 

[dskogman]

My 284 is a - Shehane
My magnum is a - Shehane

I don't often shoot a 7mm but when I do it's a WSM !

 

[davidjoe]

Must be something about Bayou, or Houston, or Texas. Every monthly LR, I think 2/3 of all the open guns are magnums. And all the ones that stay for the pair fire qualifiers, it seems.

 

[Ryan M.]

Must be something about Bayou, or Houston, or Texas. Every monthly LR, I think 2/3 of all the open guns are magnums. And all the ones that stay for the pair fire qualifiers, it seems.

The 284 did fairly well at last months match & qualifier

 

[davidjoe]

The 284 did fairly well as last months match & qualifier

An Oklahoman .284, finished well. Omar did what he does, (and Doug shot my target in record but yours indeed topped a bunch of mags, and raised the .284’s average finish, for sure.

 

[std7mag]

@davidjoe

Any updates?
You've got me curious. Lol

 

[JBT47]

DavidJoe, how many times have you tested recoil of .300 WM using heavy (210gr up to 245gr.). The heavy bullets in this caliber recoil violently compared to a standard WM hunting load using 165-180gr bullets. Sure, the 215 Hybrids as well as the 230 Hybrids (prefer the 230 Hybrid OTM over the longer 230 Hybrid Target) have fantastic performance…and could possibly enjoy a ballistic edge over the .284 . Berger 215 Hybrid or the 230 Hybrid with muzzle velocities
of 2950-3050 generates too much recoil for 3 20 shot strings Without a muzzle brake, Its too much for many to shoot period.

lit you already have a barrel chambered in 300 WM the load some heavy bullets and shoot a 20 round string under match type rules (prone, mech rest, rear bag, etc). If you had tested in this manner, you would’ve already known the answer mid string.

lit you must try the .30 cal magnum then get premium barrel chambered in .300 WSM with throat cut long enough to get heavy billets out of the powder column (.200-.250” freebore for the 215’s and 230’s.
The .300 WSM does not recoil as hard as the WM. WSM is inherently more accurate
as well.