PSA new steel case ammo plant

[urbanrifleman]

I do. I am just tired of everyone's answer to every situation being to sue someone. The one's that pay the price are always the consumer

Every company is formed to make profit. It would be idiotic to invest huge sums of money with the expectation of loss. You are starting to sound a lot like these " worker's party" socialists. We either have capitalism or socialism. Make a choice, neither is perfect.

It took only a few posts to call me a "socialist"... wow.

 

[mike mccormick]

It took only a few posts to call me a "socialist"... wow.

Well, you sound like one. Why don't you just call to abolish corporations and turn the companies over to the workers?

 

[urbanrifleman]

Henry Ford invented the industrial system we live in. The one that made this country wealthy. That formed the rich middle class. Henry Ford said he was not a "capitalist". Henry Ford was an industrialist. He said industrialists were coming under the control of capitalists, to secure credit to create industry. Capitalists are not free market. They hate free markets. They like control and monopolies. Capitalists love MONEY. Their money.

To say that people (or corporations) who have billions of dollars need to be limited in their power does not make me a friggin socialist... it makes me an American. The very idea that billionaires should be allowed to buy everything without checks and balances is truly communism. Chrony capitalism is communism. People in this country have no idea what a communist is...

Henry Ford tried to warn Americans (as did the Lindberghs). It didn't work...

 

[mike mccormick]

It took only a few posts to call me a "socialist"... wow.

I do not say this as a personal affront, but as a point of discussion. I do not think you are a socialist. I am saying that we have certain inherent problems in our system.

 

[mike mccormick]

Henry Ford invented the industrial system we live in. The one that made this country wealthy. That formed the rich middle class. Henry Ford said he was not a "capitalist". Henry Ford was an industrialist. He said industrialists were coming under the control of capitalists, to secure credit to create industry. Capitalists are not free market. They hate free markets. They like control and monopolies. Capitalists love MONEY. Their money.

To say that people (or corporations) who have billions of dollars need to be limited in their power does not make me a friggin socialist... it makes me an American. The very idea that billioniares should be allowed to buy everything without checks and balances is truly communism. Chroney capitalism is communism. Peole in this country have no idea what a communist is...

I agree with you there

 

[urbanrifleman]

I agree with you there

In my lifetime (I am 54) I have watched the "industrialist" system be DEMONIZED and replaced by the "capitalist" system. Detroit BAD, Wall Street GOOD.

Capitalism is making money for money's sake. Industrialism is making things for the benefit of all.

Capitalists don't care about people having work. In fact, poor people are much easier to control.

 

[markT]

Just went to cabelas this morning looking for a “hoody” most is the crap is made from synthetic matls and is noisy. People that run these companies just run companies. No way they hunt! Anyway I went by the ammo section. Looking for 243 ammo. NONE.
And yes Vista is sitting back and raking in millions. Maybe someone will grow a brain (PSA?) and start making the components that we use. This country is going forward and not backwards. So demand is not going to let up as long as 1/2 the country votes and thinks the way they do.

 

[john 800]

I read all the socialism vs capitalism vs industrialism talk had a few responses partially typed and gave up trying to give my complete thoughts mostly because it could be a separate, endless, thread in its own right. That said, this new PSA plant is BOTH new production and new competition. (Or I guess you could look at it as having replaced competition, but at this point, who gives an EEEEFFFFFFF) I dont care what you want to say about any company, any political policy or anything else for that matter. More production from more competition is good for all of is shooters. Hopefully they can find workers.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I read all the socialism vs capitalism vs industrialism talk had a few responses partially typed and gave up trying to give my complete thoughts mostly because it could be a separate, endless, thread in its own right. That said, this new PSA plant is BOTH new production and new competition. (Or I guess you could look at it as having replaced competition, but at this point, who gives an EEEEFFFFFFF) I dont care what you want to say about any company, any political policy or anything else for that matter. More production from more competition is good for all of is shooters. Hopefully they can find workers.

Yes it is!!!

Industrialism is GOOD!!!

 

[skeeljc]

The component shortage problem is a capitalist problem. Capitalists (Vista Outdoor) invest to make money, period. They appear unwilling to invest in an industry that is highly regulated and subject to political whims. Maybe when the Democrats are voted out their attitude will change but don't hold your breath.

 

[jk80]

Correctly assessed.

Why would they do anything to "fix" this? They have a virtual sole source to the entire country.

This is GREAT for their business... I mean... how is this not OBVIOUS to people???

I said as much on several sites I'm a member on. THE COMPANIES ARE IN THE CAT BIRD SEAT!!! Their cutting distributors and selling direct now. What do you think lack of production and absolute control over supply and pricing is going to do for us. These videos I keep seeing just serve to pi&& me off. Whining about some nasty texts or emails they get. Give me a break. New shooters are increasing and are on track to set a new record. They need to do something. I shoot a lot of trap, 20 to 30 thousand shells a year. I SEE whats happening to the clubs around me. We struggle to get and retain new shooters and now I see clubs becoming ghost towns. The manufacturers are going to kill the golden goose. Wonder if we'll get a video then singing the blues about no one left that cares about their products.

 

[Fuj]

Capitalists don't care about people having work.

Typical example is a stock on Wall Street going up
in value, when a company leans out it's work force
for a better balance sheet. The floor goes wild, the
stock goes up. the stock is sold for a profit, money
is made, and this money was made by getting rid
of workers. Don't kid yourself. It happens every day.

 

[drop_point]

One thing is for certain, Remington wasn't making any ammunition during the shortage until Vista took over. Additionally, even BEFORE the bankruptcy, Remington was making little ammunition due to lack of capital to acquire raw materials. I have a friend who is an engineer for Remington. He stated that the day Vista became the official new owners, the components started flowing in. It didn't take long for them to get up to full capacity.

Regardless of perceived monopolies or not, Vista's acquisition of Remington ammunition has increased supply for the consumer and prices are already coming down. At the local Academy Sports earlier this week, there were full shelves of .308 Win, .30-06, .270 Win, .243 Win, and .300 Win. all in Remington for $23.99 to 28.99 per box. It was much cheaper than the Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Norma offerings that were sparsely available.

As to whether or not Vista holds a monopoly, there is Winchester, Black Hills, Hornady, Berger, Sierra, Nosler, Armscore, Barnes, Magtech, and several boutique or specialty makers. Vista holds Federal, CCI, Speer, and Remington with CCI only making handgun ammo and rimfire, while Speer makes handgun ammunition. Only time will tell if it is good or bad for the consumer, but at this time it is a GOOD thing Remington is running up to capacity.

At this time, I have not seen any evidence of market manipulation by Vista. If anybody has any evidence they are doing so, I would love to take a look at it.

 

[Macropod]

Who ultimately owns Vista? Blackrock? If so, that could explain a few things.

 

[bluealtered]

Gentlemen, rather than politely calling each other names, (which is where this forum always ends up) how about we address what PSA is actually trying to to do here.

They have the permits to begin this venture, however to think that the powers that be at this time are just going to look the other way as well as the company's that completely control this sport aren't going to do everything possible to stop this from cutting into their profits is just stupid at best.

If you take the time to just read where the equipment to start this venture is coming from you should also be able to see a no importation rule coming as well. So instead of sitting here bickering like old hens back and forth, get your popcorn and watch what happens next. That's is the politest way i can say this.

 

[urbanrifleman]

One thing is for certain, Remington wasn't making any ammunition during the shortage until Vista took over. Additionally, even BEFORE the bankruptcy, Remington was making little ammunition due to lack of capital to acquire raw materials. I have a friend who is an engineer for Remington. He stated that the day Vista became the official new owners, the components started flowing in. It didn't take long for them to get up to full capacity.

Regardless of perceived monopolies or not, Vista's acquisition of Remington ammunition has increased supply for the consumer and prices are already coming down. At the local Academy Sports earlier this week, there were full shelves of .308 Win, .30-06, .270 Win, .243 Win, and .300 Win. all in Remington for $23.99 to 28.99 per box. It was much cheaper than the Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Norma offerings that were sparsely available.

As to whether or not Vista holds a monopoly, there is Winchester, Black Hills, Hornady, Berger, Sierra, Nosler, Armscore, Barnes, Magtech, and several boutique or specialty makers. Vista holds Federal, CCI, Speer, and Remington with CCI only making handgun ammo and rimfire, while Speer makes handgun ammunition. Only time will tell if it is good or bad for the consumer, but at this time it is a GOOD thing Remington is running up to capacity.

At this time, I have not seen any evidence of market manipulation by Vista. If anybody has any evidence they are doing so, I would love to take a look at it.

Primers. They hold a virtual monopoly on primers.

Only Winchester left.

As to the idea that Vista has "increased supply" simply does not pass the smell test.

If people would look around there is no way they would ever see that. This narrative that hoarding can cause these types of shortages does not hold up. These mass quantities are never arriving at dealers to be hoarded.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Who ultimately owns Vista? Blackrock? If so, that could explain a few things.

Publically traded company, but I get where you are going.

A scenario EXACTLY like a BlackRock take over is EXACTLY why there are antitrust laws.

 

[skeeljc]

Here is the best explanation I found for the "supply chain crisis".

When COVID hit people were either forced or they decided to stay home. They stopped going out to restaurants and bars. They stopped going to events. They stopped traveling. Instead they bought THINGS. THINGS can be delivered right to your door. Shopping on the internet is easy. The result was extreme stress on the supply chain causing delays, shortages and price increases. The cash that the government handed out added to the problem.

Now that people can go out and spend money on services, entertainment and travel will the supply chain fix itself?

 

[Randall D]

I think that with someone willing to make steel cased ammo in the USA may be a very good thing for the precision shooting community in the respect that it will give the mag dumpers an option to shoot something other than brass and hopefully free up components for reloading.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

"In time manufacturing" and it's influence in food, medical, household goods, automobile industry is a big part of the supply chain issue. Companies (businesses don't stockpile anything, including food or toilet paper, e-chips,etc). And most of it isn't made here because of labor and environmental regs(we know which party legislates for that). The California part, COVID and in state trucking regulations(democrat governor/legislative body) that started conveniently(for government to crisis control) in 2020. Why would you heavy tax manufacturing companies(they just charge consumers more)? Why would you legislate tax laws that provide incentives for companies to move production out of the country? Because you want to destabilize the country, weaken it to the point where the people no longer are in charge. Just a handful of non elected administrators, sounds like Obama/Biden.