Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Where are you located?
Need help reloading with more precision
- Thread starter Mojomfg
- Start date
North east ohio
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Just wondering, the guy that started mojo mfg (the decoy company) is a member here
I had a small company welding utility trailers about 10-15. Years ago .. Have kept the email address and such ever since
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I have to agree with @RegionRat a little on that part . Especially now knowing the area you're located in . I grew up back there , and it's one of the reasons I moved to Arizona 41 years ago . And I'll leave that comment right there . Those who understand need no explanation . Those that don't , none will suffice . Not every range or club is like the group of people , and world class shooters we are blessed with at Ben Avery . Where there are NO ancient Chinese secrets , or information that is only for the select few , of the "In-crowd" . I've dealt with that attitude in Pro- Drag Racing , and competition Skydiving . And it S-U-C-K-S ! But be persistent . Keep going back . When someone realizes your serious , they may open up .
What part of the area where you from ?
Said club basically told me to go join somewhere else and come back when i was ready to compete .. So now i drive an hour to shoot when i live 2 miles away from this one
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
That is VERY disappointing to hear. In my experience, such a response would generally be the exception, not the rule. In any event, you have received lots of good feedback here so far, so hopefully as you progress toward your goal, you'll find as much information as you need/want here.
I have to say i have had the pleasure of meeting and dealing with 4 or 5 members from hear in face to face transactions from the classifieds and every single person was an absolute pleasure to meet. .. Thats the reason i don't want to name what rifle range this was because i have no doubt they probably have a ton of great members . heck for all i know the club officer i met maybe a great guy and i caught him having a bad day ..
Thank you to everyone who has given me tips on here .
I don't know jack about the topic but I'll comment since I read the thread. Don't give up on the local range or people. Don't let one clown deter you. Maybe everyone else is cool? 6 months from now you may come to find 90% of the people at the club think that dude is an ass!
I'll add this. Deterring anyone interested in the firearms hobby is detrimental to the future.
I'll add this. Deterring anyone interested in the firearms hobby is detrimental to the future.
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I'll toss my hat into the ring here.
Unrelenting wealth of knowledge on this forum will help you out, but yes keep trying the local range; I hope you find someone willing to expand the sport. I will say, it's always easy to be 1st place if I'm the only one competing. That and 2-miles is in-range for us in the southwest.
As for advanced equipment:. How are you going to know your new equipment makes a difference? I'm guessing you'll say group size since that's the goal.
The follow-on question is why did the equipment make a difference?
Annealing? Take the same load and same conditions and keep shooting until the brass is spent. Did you see group variation due to brass neck hardness only? Look at the first 3 or five firings and see if you see a difference. I'm sure that annealing will extend your brass life; but it may not play into significant accuracy improvement yet. New brass to once fired brass?
Neck turning? Can you measure your necks now? If not get that tool first, and sort your brass. If it makes a difference, then the turning process can hope to repeat the performance; otherwise, it might be a labor intensive process for marginal gain.
I'd recommend improved measuring tools first. Good ROI, and resale value if you determine they're not needed.
By the way, I'd highly recommend the brass lifetime test without anneal, more trigger time is always a good thing, and my FC '09 in 223 gave me surprising results at firings 12-15. 16 was split necks.
Of course your goals really are the deciding factor. 6BRA, well I think we all assume you're doing all the above; 6.5Creed? I'm happy with 41gr 4350 and 139s shoots sub-moa all day at 600y, until I flinch, or the wind changes, or I flinch AND the wind changes, or a rabbit sneezes and the wind changes, or mirage makes it look like the wind changes, or a butterfly flaps it's wings and, well you get the point. Practice!
-Mac
Unrelenting wealth of knowledge on this forum will help you out, but yes keep trying the local range; I hope you find someone willing to expand the sport. I will say, it's always easy to be 1st place if I'm the only one competing. That and 2-miles is in-range for us in the southwest.
As for advanced equipment:. How are you going to know your new equipment makes a difference? I'm guessing you'll say group size since that's the goal.
The follow-on question is why did the equipment make a difference?
Annealing? Take the same load and same conditions and keep shooting until the brass is spent. Did you see group variation due to brass neck hardness only? Look at the first 3 or five firings and see if you see a difference. I'm sure that annealing will extend your brass life; but it may not play into significant accuracy improvement yet. New brass to once fired brass?
Neck turning? Can you measure your necks now? If not get that tool first, and sort your brass. If it makes a difference, then the turning process can hope to repeat the performance; otherwise, it might be a labor intensive process for marginal gain.
I'd recommend improved measuring tools first. Good ROI, and resale value if you determine they're not needed.
By the way, I'd highly recommend the brass lifetime test without anneal, more trigger time is always a good thing, and my FC '09 in 223 gave me surprising results at firings 12-15. 16 was split necks.
Of course your goals really are the deciding factor. 6BRA, well I think we all assume you're doing all the above; 6.5Creed? I'm happy with 41gr 4350 and 139s shoots sub-moa all day at 600y, until I flinch, or the wind changes, or I flinch AND the wind changes, or a rabbit sneezes and the wind changes, or mirage makes it look like the wind changes, or a butterfly flaps it's wings and, well you get the point. Practice!
-Mac
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I would remind to begin that 'accuracy' and 'precision' are different animals.
You seem to be mixing them as synonymous.
My suggestion: plan & pursue one of them,, optimizing for one of them.
Load the very best ammo you can with the equipment you have for now. Go and shoot. Enter club shoots where you can, as often as you can. You WILL find A LOT more shooters who are willing to give advice and lead you down the right road than those who won’t. Develop a process that works for you and follow it until you can set up and shoot in your sleep. Don’t be intimidated and don’t get frustrated, as hard as it may be sometimes. Keep at it. This thing we do takes a lot of time and a lot of work. Over time you will learn what you need and what you don’t. I’m far, far away from having as much knowledge as most who hang out here have but I learn everyday and have been blessed to have some great guys and world class shooters to spend time with. Above all have fun and go shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot some more. That’s the best place to learn.
Huh? Generally the way you get accuracy is through precision, and the way you get extreme accuracy is through extreme precision.
And I'm certainly not willing to concede the term to the PRS wing to monopolize.
The problem is that you can be very precise in twenty different aspects of loading and shooting but still not get good accuracy because you missed one little thing.
In that case I would say you are lacking precision in that one little area.
So sign up for the next match and show up and compete! It does not matter whether you do well or not. Show them you are serious about competing and you will find some people who are more than happy to give yo advice.
Accuracy vs. Precision — Litz Explains the Difference « Daily Bulletin
The NSSF has posted a video featuring Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics. Bryan also serves as Chief Ballistician for Berger Bullets and ABM Ammo. In this short video, Bryan explains the importance of ballistics for precision shooting at long range. Bryan covers key elements -- drop, wind drift...
Accuracy Vs. Precision — They Are Not the Same Thing « Daily Bulletin
This image is from Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting, Volume 2. The next time a shooter comes up to you at the range, and says: My rifle shoots one-third MOA all day long, challenge him to put a first-round hit on a 1/2 MOA plate at 1000 yards. There's a difference between shooting...
3 results below,, all great, but significantly different.
The first demonstrates accuracy.
The second demonstrates better precision, but worse accuracy.
The third demonstrates a combination accuracy AND precision.
A REAL difference in my eyes is that I'd miss 5 groundhogs in a row with that middle shooting.
That's basic accuracy -vs- precision 101, but there is another aspect of accuracy that many competitors either haven't learned or forgotten: ACCURACY is defined with every single shot.
For a hunter, who's focus should be on accuracy, there is no bench or pre-foulers/pre-warmups, or fixed distances, or grouping/averaging of results. Every single shot establishes the capability.
This happens to mean that a developed cold bore accuracy load can be significantly different from a hot bore precision load. In fact, the entire PLAN can be different.
For example; You wouldn't plan a 600yd GH gun with the highly precise 6PPC setup. That wouldn't be accurate enough at distance.
Your planning would take you to a completely different system, with little shared, including many aspects of reloading.
The first demonstrates accuracy.
The second demonstrates better precision, but worse accuracy.
The third demonstrates a combination accuracy AND precision.
A REAL difference in my eyes is that I'd miss 5 groundhogs in a row with that middle shooting.
That's basic accuracy -vs- precision 101, but there is another aspect of accuracy that many competitors either haven't learned or forgotten: ACCURACY is defined with every single shot.
For a hunter, who's focus should be on accuracy, there is no bench or pre-foulers/pre-warmups, or fixed distances, or grouping/averaging of results. Every single shot establishes the capability.
This happens to mean that a developed cold bore accuracy load can be significantly different from a hot bore precision load. In fact, the entire PLAN can be different.
For example; You wouldn't plan a 600yd GH gun with the highly precise 6PPC setup. That wouldn't be accurate enough at distance.
Your planning would take you to a completely different system, with little shared, including many aspects of reloading.
In my personal opinion you don't need anything on that list yet.
I recommend getting a good rest and rear bag and.get in some trigger time. Find someone.exlerienced in benchrest to help you with your technique.
How are you weighing your powder charges? Accurate charges really make a difference.
Learn proper load development procedures. Don't be afraid.to.stick.them in the lands.
When you are comfortable with your bag technique and you are consistent with your groups no matter what size is the time to add another step into your reloading procedure. Change only one thing at a time. The only way to tell if it makes a.difference. this is a very deep rabbit hole. Take baby steps before it sucks you right in.
When it gets down to trying to pull another 0.10 or less off your group size is when it really.gets interesting. Of course you have to have a rifle that can show that difference on target. You would be surprised how well a really good shooting rifle will perform with mediocre reloads.
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D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I wasn't going to say anything , but I just can't help myself . The OP stated in Post #4 that his interest was towards shooting F-class , and I have to ask .... How can a knowledgeable Benchrest shooter improve the gentleman's loading skills ? Beyond basic brass prep , which generally speaking , is also somewhat different . I've never seen a F shooter load rounds at the range . We load all our rounds at home , and shoot what we bring . I'm bringing this up because I really would like to know , since I've only been shooting F-class for five years .
There seems to be a difference between SR BR and LR BR ?
When I go to watch SR BR matches - I see shooters loading between relays...
In LR BR - I don't see shooters reloading at the range like they do in SR BR. They are shooting what they have loaded 'at home' (or where ever they are staying)....
just my observation
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You dont think a guy that has honed his skills enough to put bullet after bullet in the same hole can teach an f class guy thats only loaded for f class a thing or 2? Like being able to show you on paper what different neck tension and primer seating depth does? Like what happens when you pull a bullet with a collet puller, drop it on the floor, or even touch it with case lube on your hands? Benchrest isnt the simple game folks make it out to be or anybody should be able to go out and win id think.
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