Need help reloading with more precision

[KY_Windage]

A 1" tall by 2" wide group at 300y in 12 MPH full value winds is a great start.

Between that and the 1/2 moa at 400 yds, I'm thinking Mojo should be be giving lessons.

 

[Mojomfg]

Between that and the 1/2 moa at 400 yds, I'm thinking Mojo should be be giving lessons.

Lol .. Ill only be giving lessons to the slow kids anytime soon .
In my arrogance/ignorance i figured if i could frequently shoot 5/8-3/4 inch groups from a bipod or sandbag with a good factory gun and good ammo i ASSUMED with a match barrel ,more scope , and a nice rest i would instantly shoot bugholes with no new learning required
As ron white the comedian would say " i was wrong"

 

[KY_Windage]

Your instinct about your laser beam rifle is probably on point.

Until you can fundamentally remove discernible movement at the bench, trying to craft more accurate ammo is likely to prove a fruitless exercise.

If I am touching the rifle there is "discernible movement," mainly from my pulse. I have tried to learn to "shoot around" the movement. Sometimes I get tired or lazy during load development and the question becomes, did the bullet go where the + was when the hammer dropped. If it does, I'm happy. If it doesn't, it wasn't due to the slight movement I was seeing.

 

[KY_Windage]

Lol .. Ill only be giving lessons to the slow kids anytime soon .
In my arrogance/ignorance i figured if i could frequently shoot 5/8-3/4 inch groups from a bipod or sandbag with a good factory gun and good ammo

Are we still at 400 yards?

 

[RegionRat]

There is a point where you will want to learn what the “state of the art” means for what you are interested in doing even if you don’t plan to compete.

When the winds are blowing 12 MPH full value, and the distances are 300 to 400 yards, shooting under 1 MOA for score separates the men from the boys...

You have to live long enough to learn how lucky you are sometimes. My first Rem 700 BDL with its factory bbl was amazing. It made me believe that was “normal” or “common” but it wasn’t. After getting several more bbls under my belt, I learned to appreciate what it takes to shoot bugholes.

 

[Mojomfg]

Are we still at 400 yards?

Those are shot at a 1000 . . . inches

 

[Richard Coody]

Well guys , i got to spend yesterday at the range .
I only fired 4. 5 shot groups through this rifle. We have been discussing .. After reflecting i think i need to learn some new techniques . all 4 groups were shot at 300 yards in 12 mph winds left to right .. All 4 groups were about an inch in vertical and 2 inches in horizontal size .

Well sometimes I skip over post or don't read them carefully enough.

Shooting those groups in those conditions I would say just.keep.doing what you are doing. Trigger time will make you even better.

 

[Shooting in the wind...]

Yep I got you covered there, skip the annealing for now. Just use your FL sizer to bump the shoulder approx 0.002 depending on your gun. Then buy a KM expanding mandrel and run thru AFTER bumping the shoulder. I would suggest a concentricity gauge however the KM will make the inside of the neck uniform and push excess material to the outside of the case. So, even when you use the concentricity gauge it may show a 0.002 run out but in reality your prob measuring the variation in brass thickness you can sort these using a ball micrometer if you want to verify. Then in time I would buy the KM neck turner. Oh yea take the shell holder retention clip OFF, and DO NOT tighten the KM expanding mandrel inside of the die with the small screw they give you, just thread it in until it touches then back off just a touch. All my brass is usally 0.000 to .002 and after I neck turn it’s all 0.000. Neck turning isn’t really necessary unless your brass is not uniform. I just ran threw 100 new Starline 308win brass last night and 90% were less than 0.001 with the other 9% was .001 with the remaining 1% being 0.002 and that is WITHOUT neck turning.

 

[Canuckenstein]

Ive been reloading for about 5 years now . all my shooting has been recreational but with an emphasis on accuracy.
I only reload using quality components and im quite diligent with my working up loads and weighing charges but that is basically the end of my precision ...
I know i need and want to add these processes to my reloading.
Annealing , neck turning , and mandrel expanding dies and a concentrity guage .. But cant buy it all at once.
.. What order would you guys recomend i buy these things in and are there any products i should avoid ..if it matters most of my brass is lapua and dies are rcbs

First would be a tubing micrometer, 0-1 micrometer, dial indicator/magnetic stand (harborfreight or kbctools.com is ok or Sinclair’s) and a concentricty gauge. How will you know what you must do to the brass if you cant measure it? I’m willing to bet you’ll find those rcbs dies inducing run out. Annealing can be done with a torch or a salt bath kit(which is what i use).

Ballistic Recreations- Essentials For Salt Bath Annealing

Tools and Accessories for Hobbyist Shooters

ballisticrecreations.ca

Mandrel dies get some Lee collet dies works for my neck turning. You’ll also get double duty from them. I use the Hornady turner which i modified. I only skim turn for consistent tension also for bushing bump dies.

I am hoping that i will have some time soon i want to do some youtube vids. On precision without the huge price tag. There’s little tricks that can save some cash. Like using a dial indicator for setting shoulder bump and seating depth. Once you have these measuring tools look at neck turners and the like i think you’ll be surprised how consistent quality brass is.

KBC,KBC 0-1IN. .0001 TUBE MICROMETER,1-812-375,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,KBC 0-1IN. .0001 TUBE MICROMETER,1-812-375,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

KBC,KBC 0-1IN. OUTSIDE MICROMETER,1-812-501,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,KBC 0-1IN. OUTSIDE MICROMETER,1-812-501,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

KBC,MAGNETIC BASE WITHOUT FINE ADJUSTMENT,8-410-002,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,MAGNETIC BASE WITHOUT FINE ADJUSTMENT,8-410-002,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

KBC,KBC 1" .001" WHITE FACE DIAL INDICATOR,8-100-001,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,KBC 1 .001 WHITE FACE DIAL INDICATOR,8-100-001,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

I have the rcbs concentricty gauge PITA. Going to be building one using 608ZZ bearings, 8mm (5/16) drill rod, 8mm O-rings,1/2x3” Cold Rolled steel and 8mm dowel pins(when i have free time). This is basic machining you’ll only need a drill press, a welder(for tacking), 8mm chucking reamer and some time. I could go on and on about this subject.

Enjoy your trip down the rabbit hole...

 

[Webster]

Its because at 100-200 when the temp changes your load changes and you have to keep up. We use a few very much hand selected pieces of brass also, not just digging in a box and shooting whats there. Its kinda like wind flags- at 100/200 a simple switch will wreck a group. Longer distances its overwhelming to keep up with so that masks the load change that you needed a few groups back. How do you think bart shot that record group and group sizes have shrunk drastically at longer ranges? Guns get cleaned, cases get loaded between matches accounting for tuning and flags get put out. Makes a huge difference.

Shooting 25 shot agregates in the .200-.235" range to place in the top five is what the best do. Just as much personal skills as good loads and a great barrel. Guys on this website just talk about ammo. They never talk about what the best have in personal skills. There are a few guys in the county that are always at the top at any match.