What would make a 100yd group open up by a factor of 5x at 200yds?

[Shinbone]

Yup, more shooting and more groups are needed before any real conclusions can be drawn.

I've been told: "Don't try to force the rifle to shoot something it doesn't like." Accordingly, I'm going back to square one and will start with a different powder and bullet. Seems like SMK's 69gn and Varget is a good starting point. I'll also simultaneously work with N135 and a bullet in the 55gn weight range. too. I also ordered Lapua brass, to replace the Starline brass I was using.

Different rifle, but here is my shooting set-up:


1" orange dots were used at 100yds; 2" orange dots were used at 200yds.
2 foulers were shot before shooting for group. I do agree that it looks like that Kimber barrel is "settling in" after cleaning. Maybe it needs more than 2 shots to properly foul.

Here are the .22 bullets I have on hand:

 

[243winxb]

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Kimber barrel is probably a 12 twist, will likely need to stay 60 gr bullet or lighter. Focus your reticle following scope manual and leave it set.

 

[Shinbone]

243winxb - Thanks for all that great info!! And, I had considered neck turning just to eliminate neck tension as a possible variable, but your results tell me to hold off on that, at least for now.

Factory specs put the Kimber barrel twist at 1:9, and the Ruger barrel twist at 1:9, as well. I will measure to confirm.

 

[jelenko]

Personally, I'd run the whole test over at least one more time - paying attention to consistent technique and, of course, ensuring the forend, i.e., not the barrel, is on the bag.

 

[joshb]

My eyes are old, I like 16-20x and a 0.25 moa dot for load development. I have seen scopes shift poi when changing the ocular focus, that and power setting. Need repair or replacement. Seen people rest the barrel on bags and wonder why groups open up greatly as distance increases.

“Old?” I must be ancient! I don’t do load development with any scope less than 36 power.

 

[Shinbone]

Personally, I'd run the whole test over at least one more time - paying attention to consistent technique and, of course, ensuring the forend, i.e., not the barrel, is on the bag.

The gun is positioned so that the recoil lug sits over the rest.

 

[jelenko]

going back to square one and will start with a different powder and bullet.

As others have suggested, run the same components at least 1-2 times more to confirm.
Without wind, group size stays pretty much consistent at different distances. Without duplicating the tests, your assumption should be that you are the difference between your 100 yard and 300 yard groups.
With any of your rifles, what is the smallest groups you've seen?

 

[M-61]

"I did have to refocus the reticle when moving from 100yd to 200yd on both scopes -"


The focus of the reticle is set by staring briefly at the wall in your house as example. Once it's sharp and clear for your eye that's the end of it. To be changed only if your eyes have. Not changed for range.

 

[Shinbone]

As others have suggested, run the same components at least 1-2 times more to confirm.
Without wind, group size stays pretty much consistent at different distances. Without duplicating the tests, your assumption should be that you are the difference between your 100 yard and 300 yard groups.
With any of your rifles, what is the smallest groups you've seen?

This with a Winchester M70 Extreme Weather:



I've been handloading for about a year, so I don't have many examples to draw from, yet.

 

[jelenko]

Cool. How many groups did you shoot with that rifle and that same load? Of those groups, how many were close to the same size?
My questions are simply for you to decide whether you're confident that your technique is consistent enough to reliably shoot groups that are limited by the gun/ammo.

 

[Shinbone]

jelenko - Thanks for your questions. I am not a competition shooter, just an accuracy-minded hunter. I can certainly stand to improve both my bench rest shooting and my handloading. That being said, I can reliably shoot at least a 1", 5-shot group at 100yds with a rifle set-up as shown in my Post #23, and have done so many times with multiple rifles. But, your point is well taken that if the shooter is not up to it, how good your rifle or loads are is irrelevant.

 

[charlesasmith]

I am with joshb about using a higher power scope for load development. A thick reticle and 9 power for 200 yd group testing would be impossible for me. But, I am older than dirt.

Chuck

 

[RGRobinett]

Its that wind, i know it is.

Yes, it's mostly this - Dusty is correct again! If you, "do the math", you will find that the wind drift factor, from 100yd, to 200yd, is 1.43333! That's right - wind flags rule!
The wind drift numbers for a 68gr 6mm bullet, about .27 G1 BC, at 3400fps MV: 100yd. 0.090" per MPH, or, 0.90" in a 10MPH breeze; 200yd 0.39" per MPH, or, 3.90" in a constant, perpendicular, vector 10 MPH zephyr. Yes, it's four times more difficult to shoot a 2" group at 200yd than a 1.00" group at 100yd.RG

P.S. That said, the wind may 'giveth' , or, it may 'taketh' away!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Theres that pesky math again ^^

there is never a no wind situation. Scopes that are just broken do not open groups 5x without rattling. Neck turning nor mixing in different weights of bullets into the same group does it either. Wrong twist rates nor dirty barrels do it either. A 223 is one of the most forgiving cartridges out there for little mistakes, but there aint a cartridge made yet that will shoot thru the wind- your targets are a perfect example of what changing conditions do to a group. Next time you think theres no wind at all start a fire and watch the smoke

 

[Ccrider]

Check the torque on all screws.

The large spread in your es makes me wonder if you are doing something problematic in your reloading process that is effecting your accuracy. Buy a box of factory ammo and see how it shoots. I have never bought a factory rifle that shot 5 moa or anything close to that. I have seen a lot of hunters that could not shoot much better than that.

Has this barrel shot any load accurately consistently? 1 inch at 100 is not 4 to 5 inches at 200 unless the wind or the shooter is causing the spread.

How many rounds down the barrel. What condition is it in? Borescope the barrel.

 

[Bc'z]

Yup, more shooting and more groups are needed before any real conclusions can be drawn.

I've been told: "Don't try to force the rifle to shoot something it doesn't like." Accordingly, I'm going back to square one and will start with a different powder and bullet. Seems like SMK's 69gn and Varget is a good starting point. I'll also simultaneously work with N135 and a bullet in the 55gn weight range. too. I also ordered Lapua brass, to replace the Starline brass I was using.

Different rifle, but here is my shooting set-up:


1" orange dots were used at 100yds; 2" orange dots were used at 200yds.
2 foulers were shot before shooting for group. I do agree that it looks like that Kimber barrel is "settling in" after cleaning. Maybe it needs more than 2 shots to properly foul.

Here are the .22 bullets I have on hand:

What powders do you have to go with that bullet assortment?

 

[Shinbone]

I've slowly amassed a little bit of everything. In the approximate .223Rem burn-rate range, I've got:

H-322
Accurate 2015
AR 10X
Viht N130
Viht N133
Norma N-201
Benchmark
H-335
Accurate 2230
H4895
IMR-4895
Viht N135
IMR-4064
Accurate 2520
Viht N140
Varget
Winchester 748

 

[Homerange]

Invest in better scopes, that is one with far more magnification than the 3-9 you are already using.
Expecting to shoot good groups at 100 let alone 200 is only an exercise in frustration with a hunting scope.
Been there done that and 16x+ is the least I'd recommend.
The next impact on grouping is factory adjusted triggers, adjust yours to 2 1/2 lb or lighter and enjoy the benefits.
Once both the above addressed then experiment with loads.

 

[Bc'z]

I've slowly amassed a little bit of everything. In the approximate .223Rem burn-rate range, I've got:

H-322
Accurate 2015
AR 10X
Viht N130
Viht N133
Norma N-201
Benchmark
H-335
Accurate 2230
H4895
IMR-4895
Viht N135
IMR-4064
Accurate 2520
Viht N140
Varget
Winchester 748

Benchmark is my go to powder for 55-60 gr bullets.
Have also had great success with W748, IMR4895.
Currently working with H322 in 6x45 with
65-68gr bullets, things are looking promising.