2020 NRA F-Class National Championship MATCH DIRECTOR’S BULLETIN #1

[Baka]

This last line can bring up questions. To me, it’s just like saying that the U.S. should just accept and follow the beliefs of the UN and Europe. I used to race stock car, and the rules were vague on a lot of issues. I was told many times. It all depends on how you interpret the rules. If it doesn’t specifically call something out as illegal, than it’s good to go. I shoot open not TR, so don’t have a dog in this fight. But the pictured mat doesn’t provide any advantage in my eyes when I see the grooves in the cow mat. They’re on the bottom, so have no effect on tracking. The rules also say carpet is legal. So who is to determine which carpet isn’t legal?

Ringo I’m not quite sure what’s actually going on here. Did an open shooter get beat by a ftr shooter and his butt is hurt or is this a ftr shooter not happy about someone’s carpet. What’s next only certain color rugs are good to go? This is actually quite entertaining.

 

[Medic505]

a significant portion of the F-TR setup currently being used in this country are now illegal.

Not really, they were illegal before all this started. Why are you whining, have you ever shot at Nationals?

 

[Ringostar]

Ringo I’m not quite sure what’s actually going on here. Did an open shooter get beat by a ftr shooter and his butt is hurt or is this a ftr shooter not happy about someone’s carpet. What’s next only certain color rugs are good to go? This is actually quite entertaining.

Chris, It’s my understanding that some TR shooters complained about another’s set up.

 

[Baka]

Chris, It’s my understanding that some TR shooters complained about another’s set up.

Chris, It’s my understanding that some TR shooters complained about another’s set up.

Ringo do you think anyone will notice I’m shooting a 7saum in ftr?

 

[Ringostar]

Ringo do you think anyone will notice I’m shooting a 7saum in ftr?

No, because you won’t be one of the leaders! For some reason I’ve never been able to add smiley faces on this site.

 

[davidjoe]

I once was an F-TR competitor, and in my mind the binding F-TR rules for the 2020 FCNC were posted a long time ago. They have just gradually strayed and eroded over the years and match to match. It's a sorryful affair that the rules and bipod manufactures seem to have lured F-TR competitors into what we might call the "carpet trap". Yet, there is certainly nothing wrong with being innovative and pushing the rule to its legal limit.

The directive seems to be telling F-TR competitors that if you want to rig your F-TR set up to perform like the F-O competitors' rules allow, then that's where you will compete in the 2020 FCNC...that's certainly a softer landing and a less prickly briar patch than being outright DQed. So, worst case for you is you come shoot with me in F-O. Be gentle.

Sorry,

Dan

Danny, you probably saw this coming from yesterday, but no, he actually can’t. Not according to the F-Open rifle rule on bipods.

Unless someone can explain how the exact same prohibition means “X” on one page and “Y” on the following page, there is going to be a Bulletin number 2.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Not really, they were illegal before all this started. Why are you whining, have you ever shot at Nationals?

My setup is now technically illegal, Dean. Maybe no one will ever give a second look because it's a traditional bipod, but that doesn't change the fact that any traditional Harris-type bipod with rubber feet is now technically illegal under the modified rule. So as an F-Class competitor, I have an interest in the rules. The event that occurred at SWN earlier this year was only the latest version of this issue. As I specifically noted and you apparently missed, the debate over this topic has been going on for years. The time to do something about it was long before such a significant proportion of shooters started using setups that will now be considered illegal. And yes, I have shot at Nationals.

 

[XTR]

All anyone has to do here is use a different piece of $3 carpet, it's not like they have outlawed SRP brass, or imposed a 156gr bullet weight limit, and as far as I know nobody has taken away anyone's trophy.

It has been an issue, it's getting addressed, deal with it.

(and I agree you can't make it legal in F-Open based on the words, the bump to open can't happen, the answer is DQ but nobody wants that)

 

[davidjoe]

All anyone has to do here is use a different piece of $3 carpet, it's not like they have outlawed SRP brass, or imposed a 156gr bullet weight limit, and as far as I know nobody has taken away anyone's trophy.

It has been an issue, it's getting addressed, deal with it.

(and I agree you can't make it legal in F-Open based on the words, the bump to open can't happen, the answer is DQ but nobody wants that)

^ ^ Thank you, brother. He does have an out. Just like he is submitting an addendum to the NRA, he could seek a written exception from applying that problematic sentence to the National Match. Then, he could throw them into Open.

If he did that for Nationals, then I would think that rule should just be forever stricken from F/Open. Because if it’s not good enough for the national Match, it’s not worthy to ever be enforced.

 

[Medic505]

If RADs and Tuners don't facilitate shooting why do people use them? They wouldn't. Pretty simple really.

And the old adage rings true.

If you can't beat'em, join'em.

Or, you could just whine about it.....

 

[Medic505]

Over and out.

 

[MattPeetz]

My setup is now technically illegal, Dean. Maybe no one will ever give a second look because it's a traditional bipod, but that doesn't change the fact that any traditional Harris-type bipod with rubber feet is now technically illegal under the modified rule. So as an F-Class competitor, I have an interest in the rules. The event that occurred at SWN earlier this year was only the latest version of this issue. As I specifically noted and you apparently missed, the debate over this topic has been going on for years. The time to do something about it was long before such a significant proportion of shooters started using setups that will now be considered illegal. And yes, I have shot at Nationals.

And Mid is the first one to have balls to do it and facilitate a change. And he’s a traditional sling shooter to boot lol

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Danny, you probably saw this coming from yesterday, but no, he actually can’t. Not according to the F-Open rifle rule on bipods.

Unless someone can explain how the exact same prohibition means “X” on one page and “Y” on the following page, there is going to be a Bulletin number 2.
View attachment 1192987

I'm sorry, but I'm not comprehending your comment relative to the reference given...who can't do what? If it's in reference to the rule that even an F-O competitor can't groove track on carpet with a bipod (and I really wonder why...tracking is tracking no matter how you do it...if it can be done legally with a front rest in F.O., why can't it also be done legally with a bipod? I don't understand that rule logic, and I've asked for a rule change); so then, how can an F-TR competitor be remanded to do it? I have to wonder, too? Right now, I'm along for the ride!

And, I have to wonder what would happen to me, as a rule infraction punishment, if I as an F-O competitor were to shoot F-O bipod and illegally groove track carpet in violation of the rule? The directive is silent on this prospect.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[swd]

And Mid is the first one to have balls to do it and facilitate a change. And he’s a traditional sling shooter to boot lol

I don’t think the issue is so much about a rule change as it is about allowing a rifle and bipod set up to shoot all year and then change it for a national championship. The time to make a change is after the nationals.

Now if the rifles technically don’t comply to the old rule, well then out they go.

 

[davidjoe]

I was referring to Mid assigning TR tracking bipod infractions to the Open Division.

I suspect they hadn’t assumed the same Tracking rule, down to the word, appeared in the Open rules. It does though, and that is why the idea of an open division “bump” won’t work.

So, to distill all this a bit, after boiling down ALL the rules, a tracking bipod is the ONLY aid that is universally prohibited by the NRA in high power. NO rifle can use one. Everything else is flexible, weight, caliber, sights, support, a bench if needed, but NOT a tracking bipod.

It is the de facto most advantageous tool in all of high power.

By comparison:

1) You need not have a safety;
2) there is no trigger weight minimum;
3) case volume is absolutely unlimited;
4) ANY size and weight front rest is allowed;
5) eye protection is optional;
6) the ability of all to aim at the WRONG target so as to get a 0 is actually required;
7) there is NO penalty for slow pit service;
8) high masters get to start before the wind blows;
9) A silencer that would save our hearing is not allowed; and,
10) you get the higher score if someone shoots your target even if your .223 was an 8 and their .338 was an X.

 

[MattPeetz]

I don’t think the issue is so much about a rule change as it is about allowing a rifle and bipod set up to shoot all year and then change it for a national championship. The time to make a change is after the nationals.

Now if the rifles technically don’t comply to the old rule, well then out they go.

go back and read what I quoted. It is about a rule change

 

[Dessert]

Just what this sport needs, lawyers masquerading as shooters, or is that the other way around.

 

[davidjoe]

Just what this sport needs, lawyers masquerading as shooters, or is that the other way around.

Just watch for Bulletin number 2. Law is the main course, shooting is dessert.

** I’m a club M D and I do feel for the position Mid is in. I think he was asked to do this. My posts are actually more like my reasoned suggestions. But I also don’t think TR folks should have to change things now. **

 

[Warren Dean]

Why doesn't Savage have an F open Team?

Unknown. Maybe you should call them and ask.

 

[Warren Dean]

I think he was asked to do this.

Highly unlikely. He doesn't need any help interpreting the rules and isn't about to be bullied either.