Lapua Midas versus CenterX

[1911nut]

Hi Art,

I seen and have some lots that had less then .002 difference in length. and as you seen some that are all over the place. the way my barrels are setup the ideal OAL is .725 - .730 measured as my gauge is setup.
what dial indicator are you using, I switched the original for a digital Mitutoyo that reads 0.0000 way more consistent in readings.
are you still using that tuner?

Lee

I’m using the dial indicator that came with the gauge from Neco, No name. on the dial is 0.0005in.
It repeats the measurement on a single cartridge.
Yes I’m still shooting your tuner, now that I’ve got that crappy lot of Center X out of the way I'll get it figured out. Guys at the range aren’t wearing masks so I’m on a slightly suboptimal setup. The bloop hasn’t improved anything yet, you’re not surprised.....?

I hope I can get the rifle shootin as good as JJ’s

Art

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I’m using the dial indicator that came with the gauge from Neco, No name. on the dial is 0.0005in.
It repeats the measurement on a single cartridge.
Yes I’m still shooting your tuner, now that I’ve got that crappy lot of Center X out of the way I'll get it figured out. Guys at the range aren’t wearing masks so I’m on a slightly suboptimal setup. The bloop hasn’t improved anything yet, you’re not surprised.....?

I hope I can get the rifle shootin as good as JJ’s

Art

Art, I did a bunch of tuners and some of the guys never go back to me on what happened. there are a few who gave feed back and sent me targets(like you did). I keep a file on each one that does that. if I remember 68 was the setting for your rifle?
you might want to upgrade the dial indicator, since doing the upgrade I rarely get more then 4 different lengths that are not within 0.005 of each other.
as for the bloop, being what my opinion is on tuning I was hoping it did work. if some how a bloop could be used without making it more then 5-oz, it would work.
I am sure finding a good lot and you should get it to shoot as well.


Lee

 

[1911nut]

Lee, yup, 68 on the tuner with a good lot of Cx sorted at 25 has shot the best.
I’ll look into the dial indicator.
I hope to get back to it Thursday and refine what I’ve done so far.
Art

 

[USMCDOC]

Art, I did a bunch of tuners and some of the guys never go back to me on what happened. there are a few who gave feed back and sent me targets(like you did). I keep a file on each one that does that. if I remember 68 was the setting for your rifle?
you might want to upgrade the dial indicator, since doing the upgrade I rarely get more then 4 different lengths that are not within 0.005 of each other.
as for the bloop, being what my opinion is on tuning I was hoping it did work. if some how a bloop could be used without making it more then 5-oz, it would work.
I am sure finding a good lot and you should get it to shoot as well.


Lee

do you use a rounded tip, or did you change it to a flat tip on the indicator? I have been looking at this one to use with mine.
https://www.igagingstore.com/ABSOLUTE-Digital-Indicator-0-5-0-00005-Inch-Metr-p/205990.htm
But they are out of stock with those
only way to get a flat tip from them is this way.
https://www.igagingstore.com/Depth-Gauge-Digital-Electronic-Indicator-0-22-Me-p/205870.htm

 

[J.J. Coe]

J.J, must have been some freak switch as you had a very good read. I still think you had what I call the CX blues, as you had a low and then high shot.

in any case great shooting. I shoot the same target in matches here.

Lee

That's the great thing about shooting over 4 flags, it helps me narrow down problems with the gun, ammo, tune, or the nut behind the bolt.
This case wasn't so much a freak switch, but a simple let up between 23 and 18(18 went right where I was holding).
In this crazy game of rimfire I suppose it could have been ammo related but as long as I feel there's conditions present to move a bullet a certain amount I take the blame.
By the way Lee, thanks for contributing and sharing your knowledge on all the forums. I've learned a ton from following your posts.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

do you use a rounded tip, or did you change it to a flat tip on the indicator? I have been looking at this one to use with mine.
https://www.igagingstore.com/ABSOLUTE-Digital-Indicator-0-5-0-00005-Inch-Metr-p/205990.htm
But they are out of stock with those
only way to get a flat tip from them is this way.
https://www.igagingstore.com/Depth-Gauge-Digital-Electronic-Indicator-0-22-Me-p/205870.htm

Doc, I use the standard round nose tip

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

That's the great thing about shooting over 4 flags, it helps me narrow down problems with the gun, ammo, tune, or the nut behind the bolt.
This case wasn't so much a freak switch, but a simple let up between 23 and 18(18 went right where I was holding).
In this crazy game of rimfire I suppose it could have been ammo related but as long as I feel there's conditions present to move a bullet a certain amount I take the blame.
By the way Lee, thanks for contributing and sharing your knowledge on all the forums. I've learned a ton from following your posts.

Thanks JJ and you are welcome. wish what I share and know could transpire into shooting better!

To the OP james, sorry to hijack the thread.

Lee

 

[J.J. Coe]

James, as Lee said, sorry to hijack the thread. So let's get back on topic. The point I was making is lot testing is critical. It's pure luck to just buy a random brick of anything and find decent ammo. JMO

 

[james]

No problem I’m always learning

 

[jsof]

Hey James,
I went to the test center in Ohio about 3 months ago, and Luke, the tester, ran through a boat load of CenterX and Midas+ while I watched and yakked. As others have stated, there were no OMG lots, but there were a couple of quite decent lots of CenterX so I did end up buying a case which turned into two cases when I got it home and tried it out over extended sessions. There were no lots of MIdas that matched the best CenterX, but that just happened to be what was there at the time. Lee might remember when he was selling some Midas+ a while back that in my gun it shot really well but still threw that occasional group killer so in the end it was not worth the higher price.
Even at the test center one 10 shot group at 100 yards was under 21mm and both Luke and I started salivating, but it never came close again. Luke explained that as us having pulled 10 magic bullets out of the box for that target. So the lesson I took home was lots of lot testing and don't fall in love with one great group even if it's 10 shots.
As an aside, Lee's modified tuner is excellent, with mine set at 52-1/4, and he's a true shooter who is always willing to help. Also, I wish I had shot that target that JJ shot. Wow!

 

[james]

Thanks for all the information!

 

[dgeesaman]

Just finished our test visit today. Great fun. My 1907 showed a clear preference for a lot of Center-X. We tested about 12 lots of Center-X and four lots of Midas+. There were definite differences between lots.

My friends Remington 37 did not love any Lapua, and when we tested a bit of the RWS R50 and Eley Match that he brought with him, it shot those a little better. So he’s going to keep using R50 in that gun.

 

[rkittine]

Is SK actually a less Lapua Brand or are they both now just in the same town? I will be getting my first batch of SK ammo to try shortly.

Bob

 

[dgeesaman]

SK is a Nammo brand like Lapua. I’m told it’s made in the same factory on the kind of machinery, but there are SK production lines and Lapua production lines. From the Lapua lines they get X-Act, Midas+, and Center-X.

 

[rkittine]

Thanks, They seem to have the same type line up of varieties. Pistol Match, Rifle Match, Standard Velocity, Biathalon etc. I have some coming to try from Clint.

Bob

 

[flatlander]

When I sent a Vudoo V-22 bbl'd action (I'd done a Krieger bbl for it myself) off to the Lapua test center in Mesa, Az in Feb 2019, there were a couple of Center-X lots that out-shot all of the Midas+ lots that Daniel tried. Didn't hurt my feelings any to buy a couple of cases of what I felt was the best of the two lots of Center-X instead of spending more on the Midas+. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a lot of Midas+ that would out-shoot Center-X if I were to send another V-22 out to Mesa today. The main appeal to having Lapua test ammo is that if they find a really good lot, you should be able to buy as much of that lot as you can afford. Ordering in test samples of lots has worked well in the past for me, but there were also times when I was too busy, or the weather wasn't good enough to get decent test results, and by the time I'd finally had the opportunity to shoot the samples, there was no more of the lot I picked available.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

When I sent a Vudoo V-22 bbl'd action (I'd done a Krieger bbl for it myself) off to the Lapua test center in Mesa, Az in Feb 2019, there were a couple of Center-X lots that out-shot all of the Midas+ lots that Daniel tried. Didn't hurt my feelings any to buy a couple of cases of what I felt was the best of the two lots of Center-X instead of spending more on the Midas+. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a lot of Midas+ that would out-shoot Center-X if I were to send another V-22 out to Mesa today. The main appeal to having Lapua test ammo is that if they find a really good lot, you should be able to buy as much of that lot as you can afford. Ordering in test samples of lots has worked well in the past for me, but there were also times when I was too busy, or the weather wasn't good enough to get decent test results, and by the time I'd finally had the opportunity to shoot the samples, there was no more of the lot I picked available.

Flatlander,

When in Feb.2019 were you there. I was there on the 20th and 21st and tested 3 rifles myself and my friends tested 1 each. best CX 1962 gave a 11mm group, at shot 9 it was under 10.30mm the
100m was at 20.88mm, I was wondering if this was the same lot, as there were 7 cases I got the last 2-2/3 that was left.

Lee

 

[flatlander]

Lee,
I shipped the V-22 bbl'd action out rather than drive almost 900mi. The print-outs they sent me are dated 2/27/19, and I see no indication that Daniel had fired any #1962 through my rifle. I bought a couple of cases of #1117.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,
I shipped the V-22 bbl'd action out rather than drive almost 900mi. The print-outs they sent me are dated 2/27/19, and I see no indication that Daniel had fired any #1962 through my rifle. I bought a couple of cases of #1117.

flatlander, that is very interesting 1117 did a 11.54mm out of my Falcon, there was at the time 23,000 of it, I got 2-cases and the remainder of 1962, that is why 1962 wasn't tested in your rifle.

Here is what my Falcon did with 1117 when I took off the md-barrel tuner and brought in the tuner setting by 50 clicks when I got the ammo. 20-shot group
1117 was a good lot!

Lee

Same Falcon, different barrel shot with no tuner brand new barrel very first rounds out of the barrel

 

[flatlander]

Lee, refresh my memory for me on the Lapua print-outs. What's the meaning of "DHH" in the upper/right corner of each target, and then the numbers in the lower/right corner? Daniel explained that to me during a phone conversation, and I didn't write it down. The 1st 50M test of 1117 has a DHH of 4.82, 2nd target is 4.64. 100M was 11.38 & 11.67 DHH, and 34.82 & 27.90, for 1st & 2nd targets.