22rf "trainers' ...what do they really train?

[garandman]

What I want to know is SPECIFICALLY HOW you train on a 22 rf in any way that corresponds to CF

Your continued failure to do that says more than anything you type out.

And saying something ABOUT ME (ad hominem) rather than staying on topic and just answering my question speaks loudest of all.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I think 300_whisper made some good points in post #110.....

Regards
Rick

 

[garandman]

I think 300_whisper made some good points in post #110.....

Regards
Rick

I addressed them in my post # 91.

 

[garandman]

For some disciplines, like PRS, wouldn’t using a .22 with limited range space still help with positional shooting and going through the motions? For example, mag changes, forced double feed scenarios, shooting from weird objects, angles, positions, etc? So three benefits I see are based the following with some assumptions:

1. cost (I have a 10/22 target so I’m not dropping 4K into a rifle therefore the overall cost savings is real)

Perso\nally, I wouldn't use a 10/22 for bolt action practice / traning whatever people wanna call it. Also, I can dry fire my CF gun, at home, for zero cost, watching for reticle movement, which tells ya more than target impact since the gun firing and the bullet travelling adds a dozen more variables.

2. Positional shooting (shooting off a culvert or through a window is the same if your rifles are set up similarly)

Some mentioned this early on. Hadn't thought of it, since I don't do positional shooting. They / you make a good point there.

3. limited range space. (I would much rather be going through the motions of cranking my turrets and looking at dope on my .22 at 300 yards as opposed to just having a lazy known hold of 1 mil high with my 6CM. I see it as having a realistic match environment and making the best of a shorter range.)

A rf really can't tell ya much of anything beyond 300 yards. Except for load development, I never shoot less than 400 yards with my CF guns.

And the usefulness of a 22rf trainer for CF shooting is the whole point of my question.

(bolded for those who missed that point / my purpose here)

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

What I want to know is SPECIFICALLY HOW you train on a 22 rf in any way that corresponds to CF

Your continued failure to do that says more than anything you type out.

And saying something ABOUT ME (ad hominem) rather than staying on topic and just answering my question speaks loudest of all.

I don't understand the point of this thread, as you ask what we/other shooter use a .22lr to train for CF shooting. how is it what we do, will apply to how you train? you have adamantly said it makes no sense in trying to use a .22lr. as it doesn't correlate to YOUR CF shooting.
so for others to try and explain how they/we apply a .22lr for training as it correlates to our/their CF shooting will never make sense to you.
because the bottom line it won't or doesn't work for you. so why ask the question? for you the answer is clear.

Lee

 

[garandman]

I don't understand the point of this thread, as you ask what we/other shooter use a .22lr to train for CF shooting. how is it what we do, will apply to how you train? you have adamantly said it makes no sense in trying to use a .22lr. as it doesn't correlate to YOUR CF shooting.


Lee

An example of what I'm looking for:

"I (you speaking) use my 22rf trainer to practice my CF game as I have the exact same chassis in both guns with the same trgger set to the same weight in both guns, so firing my 22rf trainer helps my CF game in trigger squeeze and follow thru."

(I already responsded to this saying I beleive dry fire with my CF rig is a better way to practice trigger squeeze and follow thru, for the half dozen reasons I've already given. Repeatedly. )


But that is the type of explanation I'm looking for.


Since internal / external ballistics, and velocity and trajectory and BC and potential range and effects of wind and most everything that matters differs masively between CF and RF, I'm looking for anyone to explain.....

... how you use a 22rf trainer to train for the centerfire game.

The more specific the better..

 

[garandman]

How does a gun limited to about 300 yards help me get to 1000 yards with my CF gun?

Cuz I never shoot my CF guns at less than 400 yards. (except load development, which I'm already done with)

 

[JimT]

How does a gun limited to about 300 yards help me get to 1000 yards with my CF gun?

Cuz I never shoot my CF guns at less than 400 yards. (except load development, which I'm already done with)

How does dry firing help you “get to 1000 yards with my CF gun?”

 

[justinp61]

And training and practice are essentially the same thing, in the contecxt I used it, since the goal of both is my CENTERFIRE GAME.

******* I ******** get to define my context. Not you.

I don't shoot much centerfire, just for hunting but I do shoot quiet a bit of rimfire. I've read this entire thread and you continue to ask for proof that rimfire trainers help in centerfire shooting.

Not being in any way derogatory, not name calling and not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.

But, can you prove it doesn't help in any centerfire discipline? Not looking for an opinion but quantitative proof.

 

[dellet]

And you STILL YET have failed to do anythng more than make a claim a 22rf trainer is good for CF shooting skills.

I'm aware you beleive that. I don't care.

What I want to know is SPECIFICALLY HOW you train on a 22 rf in any way that corresponds to CF, since internal and external ballistics and trajectory and BC and potential range and wind effects and velocity and pretty much everything that matters differs.

Do you train for baseball using a basketball? I'm guessing "yes."

I don't often use a basketball to train for baseball, but when i do I make sure to use my off hand. It not only balances out my weak hand strength, but it enhances my non-dominate eye hand coordination, which interestingly enough helps sighting in a rifle or even more so a pistol weak hand.

Shooting weak hand often exposes and helps correct un-noticed strong side problems.

If you want other examples.

I use a shotgun to help my archery skills and the opposite also holds true, and they both help with shooting moving targets with both rim and centerfire firearms. IF my brain can work fast enough to hit a moving target, it can move fast enough to compensate for changing wind shooting off the bench.

When I chop wood with an axe, I use the same basic skills set that I cut tatami with a sword, so I consider either one practice for the other. Both require breath and grip control, so yeah I can tie that to my shooting practices also.

I could probably go on for a page or two with what you would consider meaningless examples, so I will stop there and save the forum server some space. Besides you asked for specific examples. Many of those were in my first post.

Bottom line,
I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.

 

[garandman]

Bottom line,
I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.

And yet you have not given me even one example of how your use a 22 rim fire to train for the center fire game. Especially at 400 yd +.

Examples from basketball and archery and splitting wood and other irrelevant topics are totally irrelevant. You wasted your time posting all that.


It convinces me you don't know. You can't explain it. You can stomp your feet and claim it's true but you can't support your case.

So… good bye.

 

[garandman]

But, can you prove it doesn't help in any centerfire discipline? Not looking for an opinion but quantitative proof.

You're asking me to prove a negative? Seriously?

You may want Consult the rules of logic. Proving a negative is impossible.

Its not my job to prove it doesn't help. It's your job to prove it does.

This is my thread. Go start your own if you want and ask people to attempt a logical impossibility. I will pass on that ? .

Besides... its not really sound logic to spend $4000 on something that might help.

 

[Hoser]

Wow. Dude.

Switch to decaff.

 

[garandman]

How does dry firing help you “get to 1000 yards with my CF gun?”

Dry firing practices trigger control and follow through at 0 cost, can be done in your basement and is essential for shooting at any distance. Even 10 yd.

Enough such that the US Marine Corps shooting team practices dry firing for hours at a time with regularity.

Do I seriously have to explain the value of dry fire practice?

 

[garandman]

Wow. Dude.

Switch to decaff.

I'm 7 pages into a very simple and legitimate question that people are harassing me over but I would really like to know the answer to

Can you help provide an answer?

 

[garandman]

The summary of this thread thus far...

Me: " Do 22 rim fire trainers help the center fire game?"

Others: YES, ABSOLUTELY!!!

Me: How?

Them: <crikets>

 

[JimT]

Dry firing practices trigger control and follow through at 0 cost, can be done in your basement and is essential for shooting at any distance. Even 10 yd.

Enough such that the US Marine Corps shooting team practices dry firing for hours at a time with regularity.



Do I seriously have to explain the value of dry fire practice?

I’ve been dry firing rifles and pistols for over 50 years, so no you don’t have to explain it to me. I can tell you dry firing does nothing to CONFIRM proper follow through. However, there is nothing better to confirm proper follow through than a .22 rimfire!!!!!!!

 

[garandman]

I’ve been dry firing rifles and pistols for over 50 years, so no you don’t have to explain it to me. I can tell you dry firing does nothing to CONFIRM proper follow through. However, there is nothing better to confirm proper follow through than a .22 rimfire!!!!!!!

Disagree. Dry fire practice allows you to watch your reticle on the bull's eye to eliminate movement. When you introduce live ammo you always get recoil and movement. Further when you introduce live ammo you introduce a dozen other variables that make the hole in the target of questionable value for telling you how your follow through was.

The simple truth is when you're off the bull's eye it does not guarantee that your follow through was incorrect. Many other factors about ballistics and trajectory and wind and load and other factors could cause to you to be off a bull's eye.

 

[USMCDOC]

Disagree. Dry fire practice allows you to watch your reticle on the bull's eye to eliminate movement. When you introduce live ammo you always get recoil and movement. Further when you introduce live ammo you introduce a dozen other variables that make the hole in the target of questionable value for telling you how your follow through was.

The simple truth is when you're off the bull's eye it does not guarantee that your follow through was incorrect. Many other factors about ballistics and trajectory and wind and load and other factors could cause to you to be off a bull's eye.

That's called "follow through"..

 

[USMCDOC]

Wow. Dude.

Switch to decaff.

more like a valium..