Berger 7mm 190gr long range hybrid

[davidjoe]

It’s definitely true that recoil impulse degrades accuracy. It’s a delicate balance to get high BC to “carry its weight”.

 

[Mulligan]

It’s definitely true that recoil impulse degrades accuracy. It’s a delicate balance to get high BC to “carry its weight”.

I think that statement is 100% correct.

Otherwise all the cool 6.5mm extra high BC (150 Berger as an example) would be whipping up on a lot of 7mm 180 shooters....... somehow, we are not seeing it.

Not many 300 WSM’s or 7mm wiz-bang cartridges out in front of the straight 284 at 1000 either. The math says it can and should happen, Locally it has appended at several locations, and many of the top shooters have tried them.
Judging from a few conversations I have had, many of the folks that know way more about wind reading than I do just plain do better with a straight 284 and their Masters Degree in Super Advanced Wind Stuff.

I think this suggests that when the dust settles, if the big guns were shooting a 22lr at 1000, they would still kick my arse regardless of what I was shooting.
CW

 

[No i deer]

You lost me there lol.

 

[RDavies]

Hi Dave..
Have you used the 7mm 183gr smks and what's your thoughts on them..??

Not David here but have use the 183s in a few barrels. They are the same overall length as the Berger 190s, but with slightly less bearing surface. So they fit in regular chambers but really do better with faster than 9" unless you are shooting in warm weather at a bit of altitude. 8.5" is a good safe choice, though I know some have used them in 8", pushed pretty hard in magnums with no blow ups. They measure up very well, with very little batching required and almost none are out of the batch group enough to need to be set aside as foulers. They are a little more sensitive to seating depth than some bullets, so you do need to find what seating depth they like and stick with it as the throat moves, but once you find what they like, they are a very nice, consistent bullet with great BC for the weight.

 

[Willow]

You don’t want to risk blowups. There’s no way to know where that point is in a particular magnum barrel until it has actually happened. I’ve never blown up any bullet in a 284, only saums.

The 195 I blew up on shot 19 after 12 sighters in a Saum that last relay was the first of those for me in more than 10,000 195’s shot through saums and .284’s.

It wasn’t loaded hotter, but the barrel was longer, 36 inches. This also happened to another shooter at Berger, two 195 bullets with a regular length barrel.

The 195 is my favorite 7mm bullet and I’ve got a lot of them to use in both 284 and saum. If the 190’s shoot well and prove not to blow up in the heat of a saum then I’ll likely change.

So am I correct in saying you cranked through 31 shots, using what Berger defines as a "hunting" bullet, which has a thinner jacket, through a SAUM in a continuous string of fire? Over what time frame did you fire your 31 shots? I would suspect your barrel would have been hot enough to cook your lunch on which would have contributed to the 195 flying apart. We don't have the luxury of firing unlimited sighters in Australia for F-class, it's 2 sighters and then you're away, so in most cases 2+10 or 2+15. I don't know any guy here that's inclined to pick a SAUM up after a 12 shot string due to the heat they produce, at least in summer. I can only imagine your barrel was glowing red after 31 shots.

 

[davidjoe]

So am I correct in saying you cranked through 31 shots, using what Berger defines as a "hunting" bullet, which has a thinner jacket, through a SAUM in a continuous string of fire? Over what time frame did you fire your 31 shots? I would suspect your barrel would have been hot enough to cook your lunch on which would have contributed to the 195 flying apart. We don't have the luxury of firing unlimited sighters in Australia for F-class, it's 2 sighters and then you're away, so in most cases 2+10 or 2+15. I don't know any guy here that's inclined to pick a SAUM up after a 12 shot string due to the heat they produce, at least in summer. I can only imagine your barrel was glowing red after 31 shots.

Correct indeed, Willow about the round count. Yes, that was too many sighters, I’d say in hindsight by precisely, two. Right again on “Hunting” as well, albeit with enticing labeling like “Extreme” and “Outer Limits” . I normally don’t take more than 5 or so but as it was the very last match of a week of Berger and I had some figuring out left to do, I went overboard.

 

[Oliver77]

@davidjoe David you shooting 190’s tmrw?

 

[davidjoe]

@davidjoe David you shooting 190’s tmrw?

No they didn’t arrive today. They missed the “target” delivery, a very bad omen.

 

[Oliver77]

I will be shooting 190s tmrw ill see how it goes

 

[No i deer]

Not David here but have use the 183s in a few barrels. They are the same overall length as the Berger 190s, but with slightly less bearing surface. So they fit in regular chambers but really do better with faster than 9" unless you are shooting in warm weather at a bit of altitude. 8.5" is a good safe choice, though I know some have used them in 8", pushed pretty hard in magnums with no blow ups. They measure up very well, with very little batching required and almost none are out of the batch group enough to need to be set aside as foulers. They are a little more sensitive to seating depth than some bullets, so you do need to find what seating depth they like and stick with it as the throat moves, but once you find what they like, they are a very nice, consistent bullet with great BC for the weight.[/QUOTE
Before I bought a box of 183 I asked an experienced f open shooter if they were ok for a 1 in 9 and he said yes...
I asked another after I'd bought them and he said no....
I now run a 1 in 8.25T so this should be fast enough..
Is there a pattern to what seating depth they like..!!!
If so what do they like..??

 

[RDavies]

If you were shooting at relatively high altitude and not too cold weather, the 183 SMKs likely would work fine in 9" twist, so likely did work well where the other shooter used them. Otherwise I would say your 8.25" would be spot on. As for jump, mine liked .010" to .015" jump and groups started opening up after that.

 

[No i deer]

I don't target shoot anywhere over 250 feet above sea level that I'm aware of..
I'm not in the know on this altitude thing on how high asl you go before it affects the cartridge,why or how...!!
I guess I've never needed too..
I think the shooter I know who had great success with the 183gr smks ran them with a 12 thousanths jump..
Thanks for the info....

 

[1shot]

I'm a long time sling shooter that is going to try my hand in y'alls discipline.
I have been shooting the 183 SMK's for three years now in a 284 Shehane. Other than trimming them to an equal length then re-pointing them they have served me well. At least well enough to win the Optics division at the Bergers last year. I have also found that they like .010-.015 jump.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[No i deer]

I'm a long time sling shooter that is going to try my hand in y'alls discipline.
I have been shooting the 183 SMK's for three years now in a 284 Shehane. Other than trimming them to an equal length then re-pointing them they have served me well. At least well enough to win the Optics division at the Bergers last year. I have also found that they like .010-.015 jump.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

Thank you Lloyd

 

[davidjoe]

I will be shooting 190s tmrw ill see how it goes

Great job winning the 600 today with them on short work up!

 

[No i deer]

Any photos or scores..??

 

[davidjoe]

Oliver took first by a point with the 190’s with 26-X in 45 record shots.

 

[Oliver77]

Great job winning the 600 today with them on short work up!

Thank You it was very windy

 

[ben_g]

Last year I used quite a mixture of cartridges in F-open, sometimes multiple cartridges on the one day.

On a good calm day or in steady conditions give me my Dasher every time!! It’s just so easy to shoot, my focus is 100% on the conditions and a small error in gun handling usually won’t cost you points.

However conditions are rarely steady, especially over a 3 or 5 day shoot. And so I also have a 284, 7SAUM and 300WSM.

For a big shoot I usually use one of the short mags. The 7 SAUM being relatively easy to shoot with only a little more recoil than the 284. It also offer incrementally better ballistics. However if your not reading the wind you’ll drop points whether your shooting a SAUM or a 6mm Dasher.

While on paper the 300WSM doesn’t appear to hold a ballistic advantage over the SAUM my real world experience is that at the longer ranges with a 215berger going 2950fps it does indeed offer a tangible ballistic advantage over the 7mm. Particularly vertical dispersion. It just seems to hold better elevation in dirty conditions. Plus it’s very easy to tune.

The downside of the 300WSM...... is recoil. For me it’s on the limit of what I can shoot consistently well, and over the course of multiple days of shooting lazy gun handling can cost me a point here and there that the 7mm wouldn’t have.

I plan to keep persisting with the 300 as when I am in the zone it shoots so well, however the mentality that saving points to the wind with bigger bullets is THE answer doesn’t always pan out, it takes extra concentration to shoot a heavy recoiling cal, concentration that is removed from reading the conditions.
Nothing worse than pushing one out the bottom or popping one over the top due to recoil. And it does add up eventually.

I think this balance of ballistics and recoil is why we see the prevalence of 7mm’s, particularly the 284 over there in the US as a SAUM would smoke a barrel real quick with unlimited sighters and 20shot record strings.

 

[Mark Self]

I might need to try these out. Let my wife have a try at F-Open! Awesome job today Oliver.