...snip.... That said I'm terrible at figuring this out.
Me too...but sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn or two
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Wind: Holding off vertically
- Thread starter Brians356
- Start date
Me too...but sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn or two
.These charts work on a 'perfect range'....one that is flat with no obstructions causing turbulence in a crosswind. This describes absolutely no range I shoot at (600-1000yds) (except the center targets at Ben Avery perhaps). Elevated firing lines, side protection berms, rise/fall of ground across trajectory, stands of trees lining the range all can and do affect vertical impact of shots in my experience. The charts are a great place to start but local knowledge of a particular range's peculiarities can really saves one's bacon in a match. Also, as Greyfox noted, lighting conditions can wreak havoc on a score if not payed attention to. I've witnessed a minute of vertical change as the sun peeked through the trees at Panola (600 yds) in the late evening. We thought the scope was broken
. Saw the same thing happen the next year but were ready for it
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In this case, which vertical direction did POI go when sun peeked through the trees?
Back in the iron sight days of service rifle shooting, the old saying, "light up, sights up, light down, sights down" applied to most shooters, but not all. I wonder if the same directional change applies to optical sights.
Bamban, at this range in the late afternoon in November the sun is blocked by tall pines on the South edge of the range. About 4:15-4:30 the sun pierces through a gap in the canopy and comes straight down the barrel of the scope for about 5-8 minutes then is blocked by the canopy after that. My shooter was shooting x's and inner 10's and I was making 1/2 to 1 ring of hold off calls (no vertical adjustments needed in the very light winds) and a shot hits in the mid to upper nine ring (high). Sun gets brighter and I have him dial out .5 minutes of elevation hedging my bet between a flier and something 'out there'. Next shot was either high 10 or inner 9...don't recall. Dial down another .5 minutes...sun disappears...next shot is 1 minute low in the inner 9 ring. This was before I even considered that that blinding sun was an issue so I assumed the NF scope had taken a dump. Shooter's dad offered his rifle the next day but suggested that the sun was the issue because he and his teammate saw that trainwreck coming and held fire until the range was 'dark' again and did not drop a point. My shooter wisely listened to his pop, kept shooting the same rifle the next day, and shot clean the remainder of the match. I really learned a lesson on just how dramatically the sunlight/absence of affects apparent target image. To make a short story long..... the bright light coming down the bore of the scope made the shot impact high.
. This was before I even considered that that blinding sun was an issue so I assumed the NF scope had taken a dump. Shooter's dad offered his rifle the next day but suggested that the sun was the issue because he and his teammate saw that trainwreck coming and held fire until the range was 'dark' again and did not drop a point. My shooter wisely listened to his pop, kept shooting the same rifle the next day, and shot clean the remainder of the match. I really learned a lesson on just how dramatically the sunlight/absence of affects apparent target image. To make a short story long..... the bright light coming down the bore of the scope made the shot impact high.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
Now when have you seen "dead calm"? LOL I saw it once when I was on the inside of a coffin looking at a future purchase ;-)
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
LOL or in my case 8-10 and then maybe shoot my target!
I didn't say it was calm. I probably had a few minutes clicked in...both ways! Lol!Now when have you seen "dead calm"? LOL I saw it once when I was on the inside of a coffin looking at a future purchase ;-)
We don't have many days around here that the wind isn't blowing at least 3 directions! Those guys and gals have it made..when all the flags are one color and they just sit back and pull a trigger, whenever!
ps..and Fox does have a good point about watching for changes in lighting conditions. It can ruin your day.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
That 3-stage wind force depiction adds information, and suggests that the 4:00 wind has more effect than from any other direction (right-twist barrel.)
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I'm not sure what you mean by 3 stages but I am sure that you have to be able to shoot what's in front of you better than you shoot those charts. They are only a rough guide.
Mike
I’m not sure what an aspiring/learning shooter is supposed to do besides use the charts for a starting point we get that .
I always get my butt kicked by multiple winds coming off berms or walls and I try to keep at it.
I’ll admit it I’m terrible
I’m not sure what an aspiring/learning shooter is supposed to do besides use the charts for a starting point we get that .
I always get my butt kicked by multiple winds coming off berms or walls and I try to keep at it.
I’ll admit it I’m terrible
We all do! But charts don't account for walls and berms. And yes, the charts do have value, so don't completely disregard them...unless the sighter and/or target tell you to. The paper doesn't lie. The rest...well. This is just an area where there are no shortcuts and no definitive answers. We all do the best that we can at times and that's all we can do. Walls, berms and wind going every which way, are what tests us all. When in doubt, go to the sighter. If you can't...Good luck! Lol! Just pick the condition you hope gives what you're after. Maybe I should've just said.."I don't know!" But there are times, nobody knows! Ya just do what hopefully works best.
I do shoot sighters I trust the paper and I adjust , I look for a condition I can handle within the time it takes me to run my rounds.
That’s all I can do.
I’m sure there’s lots of experts out there but I’m not one.
Thanks for listening Mike you’re one of good guys in my book.
J
That’s all I can do.
I’m sure there’s lots of experts out there but I’m not one.
Thanks for listening Mike you’re one of good guys in my book.
J
There seams to be a difference between CubCouper's bullet locations and Brians356's. Look at the diagrams for 1 o'clock wind and 2 o'clock wind.... that's the lower left orange flags on CubCouper's.
Which one is correct? ....very nice diagrams.....
None of them! I do see what you're saying, after a second glance. A wind from the right will pull you up and left. A wind from the left will pull yo down and right. Notice I said "pul". A bullet is pulled, not pushed, due to drag.
Anybody else been having a little window pop up at the top right of the screen that looks like the site is thinking about letting you edit, like or post? It's driving me nuts! Sometimes I have to wait for it to let me edit or even like a post. 
Lone Hunter
Silver $$ Contributor
Turn cub coopers graph around. Notice where the headwind and tailwind are on the graphs and they pretty much match up. Looks like a clock.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Did you inspect the chart I commented about? Compare closely to the several previous similar (but minus the colorful wind flags) charts. Notice each "target" shows a single "bullet hole", but the most recent one shows 3 holes depicting progressive wind velocity effect.
Some of you want to dismiss these graphics as next to useless in the real world of wind doping. But you are perhaps looking beyond their utility for explaining the basic effects of a hypothetical uniform wind direction and force on the bullet POI for folks (such as myself) who are unschooled in these concepts. A little indulgence would be appreciated. If you spot any errors in materials presented here, fire away!
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I stand by my previous posts.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Oh.
stage n. A point, period, or step in a process or development; phase; level
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