Fireforming 220 Russian/Bolt Click Question

[Ccrider]

I decided to fireform using modelers clay and pistol powder, and then turn necks down for my .268 chamber, instead of expanding and trimming the 220 necks and then fireforming with 6mm bullets.

I immediately noticed two things are different. First, the brass is blown to the length of the chamber(1.505?) instead of around 1.487-9. Second, after trimming and then firing the brass a second time, I am getting bolt click, which indicates that the brass needs to be sized at the base. When using bullets to fireform for my .262 chamber, I could shoot the brass 6-8 times after forming before ever encountering any bolt click, even if I was running a hotter load.

The primer pockets are still tight so I don’t figure I used too much pistol powder in the initial forming. But then again, maybe I did. I used Clay’s filled to the shoulder. The second firing was with a light load of N133, 28.5gr. so I don’t figure that is the problem.

Is this an issue? If so, any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[butchlambert]

I use a case full of Bullseye and a wax plug. With a clay plug, I don't believe you can have a pressure problem. Have never had the click problem and have used this method for over 20yrs. Yes, the brass grows in length.

 

[liljoe]

Did you lubricate the case before fire forming? They are longer because they get shoved into the shoulder and they grip the walls.

 

[D Coots]

What Joe said. Put a little 3 in 1 oil on the case.
Later
Dave

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Did you fl size them after forming them to load with the 28.5?

 

[308 5R]

If this derails the op. Please disregard, but this subject has always amazed me. Bare in mind I have never been involved in this process, but how do you know how much and what kind of pistol powder do you use? Are you simply plugging the neck or filling the remaining volume of the case with whatever filler you are using?

 

[rsmithsr50]

work up a load just like any other load development, looking for a clean shoulder.

If this derails the op. Please disregard, but this subject has always amazed me. Bare in mind I have never been involved in this process, but how do you know how much and what kind of pistol powder do you use? Are you simply plugging the neck or filling the remaining volume of the case with whatever filler you are using?

 

[rsmithsr50]

how much did the clay weigh ?
I do fast pistol powder with nothing or a small really small pc of facial tissue.
the weight of the clay may bump the pressure.

I decided to fireform using modelers clay and pistol powder, and then turn necks down for my .268 chamber, instead of expanding and trimming the 220 necks and then fireforming with 6mm bullets.

I immediately noticed two things are different. First, the brass is blown to the length of the chamber(1.505?) instead of around 1.487-9. Second, after trimming and then firing the brass a second time, I am getting bolt click, which indicates that the brass needs to be sized at the base. When using bullets to fireform for my .262 chamber, I could shoot the brass 6-8 times after forming before ever encountering any bolt click, even if I was running a hotter load.

The primer pockets are still tight so I don’t figure I used too much pistol powder in the initial forming. But then again, maybe I did. I used Clay’s filled to the shoulder. The second firing was with a light load of N133, 28.5gr. so I don’t figure that is the problem.

Is this an issue? If so, any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Ccrider]

I use a case full of Bullseye and a wax plug. With a clay plug, I don't believe you can have a pressure problem. Have never had the click problem and have used this method for over 20yrs. Yes, the brass grows in length.

I wi

Did you lubricate the case before fire forming? They are longer because they get shoved into the shoulder and they grip the walls.

No I did not lubricate the.

 

[Ccrider]

Did you fl size them after forming them to load with the 28.5?

Yes.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Yes.

Sounds like your die isnt getting the base like it should or your chamber is a bit on the big side for your die

 

[Ccrider]

how much did the clay weigh ?
I do fast pistol powder with nothing or a small really small pc of facial tissue.
the weight of the clay may bump the pressure.

Did not weigh it. Just loaded to shoulder.

 

[Ccrider]

What Joe said. Put a little 3 in 1 oil on the case.
Later
Dave

I normally lubricate, but forgot to when doing these.

 

[butchlambert]

I do not lubricate, 20+ grains of Bullseye, and a candle wax plug. Weigh the plug? Why? It is there to hold the powder and give you about 25,000psi.
Chuckle chuckle

 

[JEFFPPC]

I do not lubricate, 20+ grains of Bullseye, and a candle wax plug. Weigh the plug? Why? It is there to hold the powder and give you about 25,000psi.
Chuckle chuckle

Butch,I agree and do as you except, although I have used no bullet I went back to using one, I am happier with the results. With or without, definitely no oil. Clean dry case and clean dry chamber.

 

[butchlambert]

Butch,I agree and do as you except, although I have used no bullet I went back to using one, I am happier with the results. With or without, definitely no oil. Clean dry case and clean dry chamber.

Yes sir, do whatever makes you warm and fuzzy.

 

[Webster]

I decided to fireform using modelers clay and pistol powder, and then turn necks down for my .268 chamber, instead of expanding and trimming the 220 necks and then fireforming with 6mm bullets.

I immediately noticed two things are different. First, the brass is blown to the length of the chamber(1.505?) instead of around 1.487-9. Second, after trimming and then firing the brass a second time, I am getting bolt click, which indicates that the brass needs to be sized at the base. When using bullets to fireform for my .262 chamber, I could shoot the brass 6-8 times after forming before ever encountering any bolt click, even if I was running a hotter load.

The primer pockets are still tight so I don’t figure I used too much pistol powder in the initial forming. But then again, maybe I did. I used Clay’s filled to the shoulder. The second firing was with a light load of N133, 28.5gr. so I don’t figure that is the problem.

Is this an issue? If so, any suggestions? Thanks.

Why clay? I would be afraid of a buildup restriction in the bore. Something that burns easily should be a good choice. Nothing that might leave a sticky residue. I would use COW maybe tissue paper? I assume it's only purpose is to hold the powder in place.

I always FF with cheap bullets I no longer wanted. I don't have a need for more than 50 cases.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why clay? I would be afraid of a buildup restriction in the bore. Something that burns easily should be a good choice. Nothing that might leave a sticky residue. I would use COW maybe tissue paper? I assume it's only purpose is to hold the powder in place.

I always FF with cheap bullets I no longer wanted. I don't have a need for more than 50 cases.

I use regular old gulf wax you can get in the canning section. It works good and ive never had any residue. I used to use regular old paper towel shoved in there and it works just as good

 

[Ccrider]

I did a couple of pieces using tissue. I also lightly oiled the brass. They seem to have formed fine and did not expand at the base. My guess is that it was not lightly lubing the cases that caused the problem.

@Dusty Stevens, when resizing I was not getting the case far enough into the die. It usually would not matter on a second or third firing, but I did readjust the full length die so that it sizes further down the base. I will watch these cases close to see how they hold up.
Thanks

 

[AlNyhus]

Lubing cases when f-forming does all sorts of good things. -Al