Who Knows the 222 Remington?

[AccelR8]

Wow, so many great replies! Thanks to everyone.

I shot varmints for years in my late teens and early twenties with a 222 so this is sort of a nostalgia thing for me.

Someone asked...it will be a varmint gun with a light(er) barrel, muzzle of maybe .575 or so. I have to shop and see who's got what. I have not yet decided on a specific maker but I plan to choose a known quality barrel.

I have boxes of that 53-grain V-Max and I use them in the 223. I sometimes shoot an organized yet informal shoot in which we fire at steel targets from 50 to 300 yards. I just shoot point-of-aim basically, maybe hold a hair higher on the far targets, They shoot so flat I basically don't even think about elevation for targets of this type and get hits, it's too easy, when the people with 308s sometimes miscalculate.

I know the 14 twist would be too slow for the 53 V-Max, and honestly the only reason I can see for going 12 is to try the 53 V-Max. I know Hornady factory loads the 50 grain V-Max and they have to figure there's a lot of 14 twist rifles out there.

So yeah it'll be a light varmint hunting rifle not a bench rest gun, but as the countryside around me turns into housing developments and shopping strips my shooting happens more and more at the range these days and I have to admit, although it doesn't happen often, when I out shoot someone at the range with more specialized (expensive) equipment, I do get a strange sense of satisfaction. Not at beating someone but rather knowing that I'm doing pretty good with what I have to work with. I do like accuracy! The range I shoot at most goes to 300 yards. I guess 200 yards would be about maximum for me and a shot at a varmint with this particular rifle. I hope to buy a VX-3 with the CDS turret and wind-plex reticle. Not easy to find in stock anywhere, everyone stocks the duplex reticle it seems.

 

[17VLD]

I was thinking that if you use this gun for varmints I would go 12,just so you could use the 53 V-Max,then I saw RGs post and in my mind it was clinched,then you said you have lots of em and that sealed the deal for me anyway.I am sure any good match 52 or 53 22 cal bullet will do when at your steel match with the 12 as well.
Glad to see so much love for the ole .222,it is a sweetheart
Matt

 

[swadiver]

Did you finally get your .222 Shilen barrel? How long did it take?

i did. about 4 months

 

[msinc]

.......I know the 14 twist would be too slow for the 53 V-Max, and honestly the only reason I can see for going 12 is to try the 53 V-Max...........

14 twist is not "too slow" for any 53 grain bullet. In fact 14 twist is fine for 55 grain bullets right on out to this cartridges effective range. Don't fall into that old American trap of "if some is good, then more must be better". That works with some things, like racing engines or tires on a mud truck, but it might not be a good idea with twist in a rifle barrel.
There are no free lunches, a rifle is generally most accurate shooting the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet you are using. This is an old and well established fact. If at some point you intend to use heavier bullets then get the faster twist, but know that it is a compromise. I don't know why you would do that, as 55 grain bullets are about the limit for good general performance given the case capacity of the 222.
I put together a lot of rifles for folks and I always tell them the same thing...decide what you are going to do with the rifle and then pick the bullet you intend to use. This will dictate the rest of the gun {pretty much} except for details that have nothing to do with performance. As soon as someone starts talking about bullets too heavy for the cartridge I start talking about going to the proper cartridge to get the job done.
But, but ....but what about all those folks shooting 100 grain bullets and a 1-in-6 twist with a 223.....well, you can drive your car with your feet if you want to, but that don't make it a good idea.
Sorry for the galactic shock, but shooting benchrest competition does not automatically command respect. Not here or anywhere else....giving good, solid, factual advice when asked for it does.

"...Wow, I am really disappointed with the way this rifle shoots, but it's okay and I am happy because the guy who told me what to do has a benchrest trophy...", said no one ever!!!!

 

[AccelR8]

msinc I appreciate your input. I feel that the only way to know for sure if something is going to work is to actually try it. On line twist rate and stability calculators are only predictions which may or may not be accurate. And conventional wisdom is often incorrect.

Keep in mind that 53 grain V-Max is .830 inches in length. Various twist rate calculators all say it will be unstable at 14 twist and 3000 fps. and recommend a minimum twist of 9.5. But then again, they all say it won't be stable at 3300 fps and 12 twist either...but I know that combination shoots great because I shoot it regularly.

While I am not quick to admit that I've tried something and had it not work, I have tried the 53 V-Max in the current 222 Rem 14 twist barrel. Shots at 100 yards were all over the paper and probably 10% of the bullets went through the target sideways.

My best groups were achieved with the 55 grain Hornady SPSX, a slghtly heaver but shorter projectile.

Back in the day, I shot the 50 and 55 grain spsx bullets in the 222 and got fine accuracy with both. I, like you, believe that the best choice is the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet...in my mind to 222 is not a "heavy Bullet" cartridge anyway and I think 50 grains is probably the sweet spot. I don't need that one particular bullet, there are plenty others that should work very well.

 

[msinc]

Thank you sir!! It sounds like you know exactly what you re doing and really don't need the input of anyone and that's a good place to be!! Best of luck and good shooting.

 

[lb-ft]

55 PSP, 55 FMJ shoot great in my 1:14 222.

53 V-Max mirrors AccelR8's experience.

 

[AccelR8]

Thank you sir!! It sounds like you know exactly what you re doing and really don't need the input of anyone and that's a good place to be!! Best of luck and good shooting.

Well, I was not really "in to it" in the era of the 222 Remington as the premier accuracy cartridge and I feel it's always beneficial to seek the advice of those more experienced and knowledgeable than I.

 

[rogina]

You are way off topic from OP request: identify yourself and show us your creds and you may get some respect.

Relative to caliber/cartridge, I have no trouble competing in registered BR events - my woes are generally self induced . . . I am a maker/supplier of some of the finest BR quality bullets on the planet: my shop walls plastered with plaques garnered from registered IBS/NBRSA competitions - including, for my favored disciplines, several NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - and, people who had taken my heretical advice have piled up so many records and championships, I have lost count . . .

For ANY .22 cal, intended for 100-300 Yd. competition, using classic 50-55 Gr. bullets, I use & strongly recommend 1:12" twist: obtain a quality 1:12" barrels and be happy! RG

Roger Schuppe. Rob Seelye shot a 222 one year and won a lot at 100 yards Not so at 200 yard winds. Randy when I sat next to him at 200 yards I could watch the bullet go and hit at 200 yards. It took forever fo the bullet to get there. You know the kind of conditions we shoot in. Merry Christmas, Randy.

 

[rogina]

You are way off topic from OP request: identify yourself and show us your creds and you may get some respect.

Relative to caliber/cartridge, I have no trouble competing in registered BR events - my woes are generally self induced . . . I am a maker/supplier of some of the finest BR quality bullets on the planet: my shop walls plastered with plaques garnered from registered IBS/NBRSA competitions - including, for my favored disciplines, several NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - and, people who had taken my heretical advice have piled up so many records and championships, I have lost count . . .

For ANY .22 cal, intended for 100-300 Yd. competition, using classic 50-55 Gr. bullets, I use & strongly recommend 1:12" twist: obtain a quality 1:12" barrels and be happy! RG

Sorry i got off topic.

 

[velocette]

I rebuilt / re barrelled my dads Rem 722. I used a McGowan RemAge 24" 12 twist heavy barrel in SS.
The rifle shoots very well with 55 grain Berger match or varmint bullets. Easy sub 3" at 518 yards, and 3/8" @ 200 yds.
Using Viht N133, Lapua brass, Fed match primers.

 

[redrockranger]

14 twist is not "too slow" for any 53 grain bullet. In fact 14 twist is fine for 55 grain bullets right on out to this cartridges effective range. Don't fall into that old American trap of "if some is good, then more must be better". That works with some things, like racing engines or tires on a mud truck, but it might not be a good idea with twist in a rifle barrel.
There are no free lunches, a rifle is generally most accurate shooting the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet you are using. This is an old and well established fact. If at some point you intend to use heavier bullets then get the faster twist, but know that it is a compromise. I don't know why you would do that, as 55 grain bullets are about the limit for good general performance given the case capacity of the 222.
I put together a lot of rifles for folks and I always tell them the same thing...decide what you are going to do with the rifle and then pick the bullet you intend to use. This will dictate the rest of the gun {pretty much} except for details that have nothing to do with performance. As soon as someone starts talking about bullets too heavy for the cartridge I start talking about going to the proper cartridge to get the job done.
But, but ....but what about all those folks shooting 100 grain bullets and a 1-in-6 twist with a 223.....well, you can drive your car with your feet if you want to, but that don't make it a good idea.
Sorry for the galactic shock, but shooting benchrest competition does not automatically command respect. Not here or anywhere else....giving good, solid, factual advice when asked for it does.

"...Wow, I am really disappointed with the way this rifle shoots, but it's okay and I am happy because the guy who told me what to do has a benchrest trophy...", said no one ever!!!!

I have personally witnessed 53vmax in a Cooper 222 go thru the target sideways. I'll remember not use your gunsmith services.

 

[biggun2869]

If I was building one today for what you envision I would go w/1-12. I personally have never had a custom. I've had a few factory though and of course they were 1-14. My 222 today is an old 722 factory gun and I like it quite a bit. It wears a 16x steel weaver and a blackbird better not tarry here too long. Remington probably should have gone to 1-12 years ago. That twist is fine and gives you a lot more options for bullets.

 

[AlNyhus]

14 twist is not "too slow" for any 53 grain bullet. In fact 14 twist is fine for 55 grain bullets right on out to this cartridges effective range. Don't fall into that old American trap of "if some is good, then more must be better". That works with some things, like racing engines or tires on a mud truck, but it might not be a good idea with twist in a rifle barrel.
There are no free lunches, a rifle is generally most accurate shooting the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet you are using. This is an old and well established fact. If at some point you intend to use heavier bullets then get the faster twist, but know that it is a compromise. I don't know why you would do that, as 55 grain bullets are about the limit for good general performance given the case capacity of the 222.
I put together a lot of rifles for folks and I always tell them the same thing...decide what you are going to do with the rifle and then pick the bullet you intend to use. This will dictate the rest of the gun {pretty much} except for details that have nothing to do with performance. As soon as someone starts talking about bullets too heavy for the cartridge I start talking about going to the proper cartridge to get the job done.
But, but ....but what about all those folks shooting 100 grain bullets and a 1-in-6 twist with a 223.....well, you can drive your car with your feet if you want to, but that don't make it a good idea.
Sorry for the galactic shock, but shooting benchrest competition does not automatically command respect. Not here or anywhere else....giving good, solid, factual advice when asked for it does.

"...Wow, I am really disappointed with the way this rifle shoots, but it's okay and I am happy because the guy who told me what to do has a benchrest trophy...", said no one ever!!!!

Dude.....

 

[BoydAllen]

YEARS back, the first time that I took my 14 twist .222 bench rifle to the range, not wanting to waste my "good bullets" breaking in the barrel, I took along some Nosler 55 gr. BTs. Surprisingly they shot extremely well.

 

[msinc]

I have personally witnessed 53vmax in a Cooper 222 go thru the target sideways. I'll remember not use your gunsmith services.

Imagine my relief....but no, you wont have to bother remembering.

 

[Greyfox]

Several years ago when UBR was first started I was fortunate to win SSOY in Modified Class and also 4 Gun SSOY using a very old Remington 722 in a Kleinendorst sleeve chambered in .222, The barrel had been used for several years prairie dog shooting and probably had well past 10,000 rounds. It shot very well at 100 and I won many matches in my class. However it struggled with the wind @ 200 and eventually I changed to a 220 Beggs gaining about 500 fps. I used a 14" twist and am intrigued by the idea of a 12" twist. I only competed with 53 gr Hillbilly bullets. The chambering is fun to shoot and extremely accurate. I used 4895 and Re7.

Rick

 

[dedogs]

I'm guessing that all you 53g V-Max 14 twist naysayers don't have or have never read Hodgdon's reloading chapter on the .222 Remington. It clearly states that their 14 twist test barrel would stabilize 53g V-Max as well as 55g V-Max. Their only caveat was the 60g MIGHT NOT stabilize @ 3000 fps. Perhaps more powder? dedogs

 

[snert]

I'm going to fall into the "ignorance is bliss" catagory here. I have several 222's over the years, all 14 twist. I generally was darn happy with shooting them using 50, 52 and 53 grain bullets, vmax, etc, sierra match and the old blitz bullets ( a fine bullet btw). Very happy with groups, even to 200 yards, particularly for the kid of shooting the OP is talking about. I even loaded 70 grain round noses once and they actually shot ok at 100 yards, strangely! i think they were Speer. Goofy bullet back in the day.

I never used the 53 vmax, but have used the old 52 amax/vmax? designed for 14 twist and it shot just like any other one. So, ignorance is bliss and I have been infatuated with the duece all my shooting life, 40 years now and going faster...

 

[AlNyhus]

Respectfully, I think some are missing the point that Randy and others are making.

-It's not that the 1:14 won't stabilize quite a few of the 50-55 bullets out there. History shows us that it most of the time it will. The individual barrel is the wild card in this scenario.

-Of bigger importance is that a 1:12 will stabilize the same bullets with no measurable loss of 'on target' performance, even in a full blown, state of the art Benchrest (that's with a capital 'B') rifle driven by a World Class shooter.

With the theoretical 'perfect' Sg (stability number) being 1.0 and anything less than 1.0 being unstable, let's have a look at a couple of examples:

Berger 50 gr.(.718 long), 3,300 fps, 1:14: 1.020 Sg
Nosler 50 gr BTip (.795 long), 3,300 fps, 1:14: 0.764 Sg

Now, let's twist in 1:12 and see the results:

Berger 50 gr.(.718 long), 3,300 fps, 1:12: 1.388 Sg
Nosler 50 gr BTip (.795 long), 3,300 fps, 1:14: 1.040 Sg

In conclusion, on a new build/rebarrel, there's no reason to go with a 1:14 and limit yourself on the bullets you'll be able to use. The polymer tipped bullets (unheard of in the .22's heyday) have opened up possibilities but have also exposed the limitations of stability relative to the 1:14 twist.

For the vintage .222 twisted 1:14, continue to enjoy the great performance with bullets that work with the twist.

Good shootin'. -Al

P.S. A really good 222 combination is with the Nosler 40 gr. BTip and H4198. 3,700 fps with sub .250 groups is routine. The .221 B.C. of that bullet @ 3,700 brings the 222 Rem to a whole new level.