E-Targets for F-Class

[Snuggie]

I love etargets. I hate the pits. I can't wait until everyone has them. I just got a shot marker system myself, haven't shot it yet. I heard you guys had one at the last Palo match, kind of checking it out. What are your thoughts?

Robin did a presentation to some of the board members that day. The Shot Marker was flawless and the Board was impressed. They’re talked about getting a few to start. We all know it will be both an educational and learning experience. Also will have to have a “house” tech person for maintenance. BTW, I did shoot ONE match on them at Laurel. That was not a good experience! Turned out the targets were not properly maintained. And of course it had to be a 100+ degree that day! We’ll keep you folks posted on our progress on ours.

 

[Jennb]

Bayou did their homework! They had a couple targets (Shotmarker) and tested the heck out them then tested some more. They kept testing and learning the system while adding more targets and in some serious rough conditions including a driving rain and they worked great. Sensors and sending units bit the bullet along the way, as in they got shot. The sling shooters are even turning out in good numbers to shoot on them.

 

[Bindi2]

Bindi2 - besides no delay, I'm curious about whether or not y'all choose to show all shots in a string, versus just the last one.

Also wonder how many guys who like the nostalgia of doing things the old-fashioned way think we'd be imposing a 7-second delay and only showing the last shot in a string if e-targets had been around at the inception of f-class?

Ever been to a bowling alley that didn't have an automatic pin setter and scoring? Me either... embrace the future, I say.

We show all shots. The comment about delays and crossfires is it in a nut shell. No delay crossfire sorted.

 

[Snuggie]

So, Jenn, I take it they don’t do well in the rain. I’m sure it’ll be quite a learning experience as to what affects them badly. Thanks for that!

 

[Jennb]

Actually they worked flawlessly in a bad driving rain. We had no thunder or lightning but the rain was tough. I was soaking wet under the shooting line cover and had water in my scope hood.

 

[RDA72927]

So, Jenn, I take it they don’t do well in the rain. I’m sure it’ll be quite a learning experience as to what affects them badly. Thanks for that!

No, they did well in the rain. When she said they bit the bullet, the sensor or Brain got SHOT... Nothing works well after a 308 hits it...

 

[Snuggie]

Ooohhh, they bit THAT bullet! Lol! Thanks for that!

 

[foxguy]

I'm a new shooter to F-Class. I shot 2-mid range 600 yd matches last year - 6MM-BR ( I shot well 596 and a 594, to say the least I'm hooked). I did my part and did the pit duty. For me, It was about learning about the pit duty. Both of the matches were very busy between shooting, scoring and performing pit duty. I enjoyed the shoot very much, But I missed being able to visit with other shooters when I wasn't shooting/Scoring. I believe E-Targets are the way of the future, E-Targets will help to bring in younger shooters keeping the sport going. I'm good with a 7-10 second delay and just showing the current shot.

I believe while I was performing the Pit duty, we were able to score and return the target to it upright position in 9-10 seconds, and while I was shooting I believe the pit crew also scored and returned my targets to its upright position in appx 10 seconds.

I look forward to shooting on E-targets (Shot Marker) this year.

 

[Bindi2]

I have been shooting on ETs for 8+ yrs. No delay. I stopped going to ranges with manual targets years ago for serious shoots no enjoyment. Sling shooting is a dying match here for many reasons one being the world has moved on. F class with all the whiz bang gear is where the young guys are at its where the military is at. ETs are the go on army sniper courses less men more shooting per day. Even the police marksmen are using ETs. The only down fall in the early days was the lack of maintenance. Very few drive T model Fords any more though the principle of the car is the same today. The original ETs have been upgraded but the principle is still the same.

 

[David101]

For a pretty comprehensive report on E targets have a look at this Site. Australia has actually had them for quite a few years now. It has created a bit of a divide with some people boycotting any Big competitions that they may have to fly or drive 12 hours to and then let down by the accuracy of the recording. However I have seen more mistakes made my manual markers than a few mm hay have made to a score.

https://sites.google.com/site/etargetco ... goodenough

https://sites.google.com/site/etargetcomparison/home

A whole section of threads dedicated to Electronic targets.
https://www.ozfclass.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=29

E targets have saved the sport many clubs were on the verge of closing the dwindling number of TR shooters and the new generation of shooters doesnt want to spend time pulling targets and the older shooters backs just aren't up to it. Our club has nearly doubled in size in the 5 years we have had the targets. Still a small club but the trend is much better.

 

[Bindi2]

We have rebuilt the Kongsberg targets to a solid sound chamber with a replaceable cassette centre. This has improved the life to 2,500+shots before a replacement cassette is required. The accuracy is excellent and the target tells us when it is getting tired. The rebuild time is now less than 5 minutes down from 2.5hrs per target.

 

[XTR]

My opinions FWIW. Others have stated reasons in support of this that I have voiced here and in person in the past so I'll keep is short.

• Shoot with a delay, or pair fire.
  
• do not show the string plot until after the last shot for record is fired. Only the last shot is shown.
  
• If it doesn't have the delay it can't be more than an approved match, and I think that is a stretch.
  
• Every system being sold now has the capability of adding the delay, it's just software.

 

[GSS]

Actually they worked flawlessly in a bad driving rain. We had no thunder or lightning but the rain was tough. I was soaking wet under the shooting line cover and had water in my scope hood.

I'm glad you clarified your statement as it initially read that the system failed because of the rain. Not clear what Manf system you were referring to either.

 

[Jennb]

[

I'm glad you clarified your statement as it initially read that the system failed because of the rain. Not clear what Manf system you were referring to either.

Edited my statement from earlier so it is more clear. Shotmarker targets.

 

[GSS]

[

Edited my statement from earlier so it is more clear. Shotmarker targets.

Is it correct that the failure was from hardware downrange getting shot not failing because of the rain?

 

[Eric Wuestenhoefer]

Absolutely a delay of 7-10 sec.

The whole essence of F Class shooting is shooting over a time period in changing conditions. Without a delay you are shooting like bench rest guys. I don’t think National records should count unless you are using a delay.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

The people arguing against a delay already have an alternative option - it's called Benchrest. They have long range, short range, heavy, light and everything in between. If that's what you like, then it's right there for you to shoot. I'm actually planning to shoot a BR match or two because it seems like an interesting change from F-Class. I also shoot service rifle and match rifle (irons) because it's a different game with different challenges.

F-Class is a specialized game within a larger HP framework. The parameters of the challenge are defined, and slow-fire is one of them. Seeing only your last shot for reference is another. Remove those things, and what's the point of splitting hairs between BR and F-Class? At that point, you are shooting for smallest group - which is basically Benchrest with 10 more shots for record.

I'll load test on an e-target all day long - give me rapid fire, give me full plot for every shot, give me group analysis, absolutely. But come game time, I want those things that separate trigger pullers from shooters (within the definition of F-Class) and the e-target system better incorporate those things. If the NRA sees fit to redefine the category to bring it closer to BR, then I'll either change with it or take up something else.

 

[rardoin]

Is it correct that the failure was from hardware downrange getting shot not failing because of the rain?

Correct...acute lead toxicity.

 

[tvaught]

Is it correct that the failure was from hardware downrange getting shot not failing because of the rain?

To clarify the equipment anomalies on that specific day...

There was occasional precipitation during the match that day, and due to the 6 o’clock frame location of the Sensor Hub, this caused moisture to run down the cables and interfere with the 1.5mm audio connections at the sensor hub. The connections on the mics are clocked at the 6 o'clock so they don’t have this vulnerability. The latest sensor hubs Adam is shipping out have all 4 connections in a row on one edge of the sensor hub. The next generation of club frames placed the sensor hubs at the 12 o’clock position to better shed moisture, and avoid shot damage. By placing a gallon freezer bag over the sensor hub, the club has tested the Shotmarker in some fairly heavy downpours...heavy enough that they obscured target visibility and that caused the match delay. The vulnerability is moisture compromising the Sensor Hub audio jack connections. Between di-electric grease and gallon freezer bags over the sensor hubs, the club’s testing in heavy precipitation shows promise with a goal of having a reliable system that will provide for a great match experience even if a heavy rain cell rolls through.

This specific frame/sensor functioned normally throughout the match, despite displaying a “sensor disconnected”.

My vote to have the shooter wear this around his neck as a pendant of Shotmarker honor for the next match i.e. Flava-Flav were subsequently shot down. This specific Sensor Hub has been subsequently been repaired and has functioned without error in several matches now.

 

[Matt P]

The people arguing against a delay already have an alternative option - it's called Benchrest. They have long range, short range, heavy, light and everything in between. If that's what you like, then it's right there for you to shoot. I'm actually planning to shoot a BR match or two because it seems like an interesting change from F-Class. I also shoot service rifle and match rifle (irons) because it's a different game with different challenges.

F-Class is a specialized game within a larger HP framework. The parameters of the challenge are defined, and slow-fire is one of them. Seeing only your last shot for reference is another. Remove those things, and what's the point of splitting hairs between BR and F-Class? At that point, you are shooting for smallest group - which is basically Benchrest with 10 more shots for record.

I'll load test on an e-target all day long - give me rapid fire, give me full plot for every shot, give me group analysis, absolutely. But come game time, I want those things that separate trigger pullers from shooters (within the definition of F-Class) and the e-target system better incorporate those things. If the NRA sees fit to redefine the category to bring it closer to BR, then I'll either change with it or take up something else.

Do you want to ban plot sheets as well, so you can't see the group form as would seeing all shots ??
Matt P