I have been looking into all of the brands that I'm hearing. The past post are spot on with what I've been looking at. I was warned that when I try to buy from multiple manufacturers trying to get the best of each component that they might not work well together. The custom die from Warner tool is exspensive for sure. I like what I see there despite cost. I'm definetly the type of guy that will pay the price for what I feel is best in class. Widden is definetly on the top of list. I've taken this rifle apart many times reworking everything that I can to ensure axle alignment of all the parts. Fit and finish along with Specialty Coatings like the DLC coatings from Mustang coatings are in my plans. I'm even planning on coating the dies, and components to reduce the need for lubricants during the size and processes. Mustang coatings has developed a new coating that is the slipperiest and hardest coating available on the market. Some of the very experienced Shooters in our competition or telling me that the 6 mm bullets seem to like more press fit on neck tension. I plan on playing with each variable one of the time to see what produces the best results. I am a head Porter, and power developer by trade. It requires me to be very patient and tedious with my work. From what I can tell, reloading is right up my ally. In a lot of ways I find things like this to be very relaxing.
Reloading questions. Getting geared up.
- Thread starter Joel Dubose
- Start date
Agree, I'm in the process of dissecting exactly what I have and use it as a basline. I've been keeping really good records on every measurement and differences as I go. That is some sound advice I think.
I'm having trouble finding loading books with information on 6mm Creedmoore info. Can you guys take a look at your loading books to see if you have one that includes info on this ?
dcali
Bullet Maker
If I were you, I’d slow down and start with something simple. Jumping straight into custom dies before you’ve mastered the basics is a lot. It can be done, but you’re jumping into the deep end for your first swimming lesson.
I’d get one of the kits that that the big companies offers, a Lyman manual, and start with factory dies.
I’d get one of the kits that that the big companies offers, a Lyman manual, and start with factory dies.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
You might want to include a press for sizing. I'm not strong enough to operate a sizing die by hand.
It is true, most of what I use regularly fits on a small table.
It really multiplies when you buy the budget stuff and upgrade later, or when you experiment with different stuff that ultimately doesn't stay in the rotation. It also multiplies further when you consider items that add speed - like a Chargemaster.
I agree with the buy once, cry once philosophy. But you also have to learn to master the art with basic tools before getting into advanced stuff. Don't neck turn or anneal until you wear out the brass you have. When it's time to buy more brass, but Lapua and defer the neck turning and annealing until then.
Also there is nothing wrong with loading exceedingly consistent ammo for a gun of moderate precision. You might have a winning barrel - at least for what it is. Not everyone on this forum is running a tight chamber cut with their own reamers.
I agree with the RCBS RC Supreme kit recommendation. I don't use all of it anymore, but it gets you going.
David
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Have you ever tried a dlc coating? Talking with a very experienced reloader question whether or not it would change the size. But I haven't really found any real life experience with it. I see where they offer coated bushings. Tin I think, but not 100%. I have no clue but my experience with it has been very good. I would give it a hundred percent on what I've seen from it in the racing community.
these are VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRYYYYYYYY TRRRRRUUUUUUEEEEEEE words right here. try and decide RIGHT NOW!!!! how serious you are going to be about this world you have chosen, then talk to someone who has shot/shoots in your discipline that you like and shoots REALLY GOOD, LISTEN to their advice, and THEN make your decisions. oh yeah, during your journey into wisdom, if someone that goes by "guffey" chimes in, well, you'll figure it out
. good luck and shoot well, there are a BUNCH of great folks on here to listen to. just not that "guffey" one (JUST KIDDING GUYS!!).YOU CAN CALL THE POWDER MAKERS AND THEY CAN GVE YOU PLENTY OF LOAD INFO, AND ON THIS SITE (THIS SITE HAS A GREAT SEARCH ENGINE). I used to race ford fe engines( I know, sucker for punishment
). and I'm all in that you want to make the best ammo you can for your rifle, custom rifles just improve and make more consistent, thats all 
. good luck. bryantNo. I haven't.... though it seems to me if your coating something it's size would grow? It has too.
Murray Brook
Silver $$ Contributor
Joel, you said that you are a race car engine builder, and I'm sure a good one. Take the same advice towards hand loading as you would give to a young man starting out in the motor building industry. I'm sure the first engine you built wasn't a 1500 HP race motor. More than likely you had to work up to something like this. I believe the same holds true in hand loading. JMO
I would not buy a cheap press. If you are not sure what press you want, look at the Harrell’s combo press. I don’t have one but know they make quality products and this would give you both an arbor and regular press in one option.
I have a Forster press and a 21st Century arbor press. They both work well.
Once you get started, you will better appreciate the sage advice you are getting from the guys on this site, many of whom are established world class bench rest shooters. When they all tell you that .00002 runout is not measurable and irrelevant, or words to that effect, you can take it to the bank. Or, spend 600 bucks on a die that’s marketed to be that precise with no true practical way to measure it; and even if you could, it ain’t gone show on the target.
I would go straight to the fx120 with trickler and powder thrower if money is no object. Again, buy once, cry once. It will save you time and as accurate as needed. I have the fx120 with trickler and wish I had purchased the set up with the powder throw. It would be quicker. I started with a Lee kit, then purchased a Pact scale and powder throw which I still use at times. I also have and am learning to use a Harrell’s powder throw.
Also, buy a labradar. Or buy a cheaper chronograph. I have a Pact I will sell you if you are interested. Accurate and nice but not nearly as convenient as the Labradar.
Having all of the best equipment want make you a precision reloader. The more you do, the more consistent you get. Take it slow. Neat thing is, the ride is almost as good as getting there.
I have a Forster press and a 21st Century arbor press. They both work well.
Once you get started, you will better appreciate the sage advice you are getting from the guys on this site, many of whom are established world class bench rest shooters. When they all tell you that .00002 runout is not measurable and irrelevant, or words to that effect, you can take it to the bank. Or, spend 600 bucks on a die that’s marketed to be that precise with no true practical way to measure it; and even if you could, it ain’t gone show on the target.
I would go straight to the fx120 with trickler and powder thrower if money is no object. Again, buy once, cry once. It will save you time and as accurate as needed. I have the fx120 with trickler and wish I had purchased the set up with the powder throw. It would be quicker. I started with a Lee kit, then purchased a Pact scale and powder throw which I still use at times. I also have and am learning to use a Harrell’s powder throw.
Also, buy a labradar. Or buy a cheaper chronograph. I have a Pact I will sell you if you are interested. Accurate and nice but not nearly as convenient as the Labradar.
Having all of the best equipment want make you a precision reloader. The more you do, the more consistent you get. Take it slow. Neat thing is, the ride is almost as good as getting there.
Not measurable amounts. We tried it in my AR bcg, and zero oil it never failed. Not a ton of rounds through it at this point but around 350 ish. It wiped clean and no wear. Running it without lube just for testing on an AR 15 was proof enough for me.
.00002" runout? I don't even think NASA measures that close.
Seriously, if you're an engine builder then you know that the tools don't make the engine builder. Same with handloading. If that were the case I would have just bought the best equipment and produced ammo that resulted in one-hole groups. But it doesn't work that way.
As stated by other posters, don't go cheap on equipment. You'll only wind up buying the good stuff later on. And if you're new to handloading, by all means find a mentor. One who gets good results with his ammo. There is a LOT of info out there that is not in the reloading books. It only comes from experience.
Good luck.
Seriously, if you're an engine builder then you know that the tools don't make the engine builder. Same with handloading. If that were the case I would have just bought the best equipment and produced ammo that resulted in one-hole groups. But it doesn't work that way.
As stated by other posters, don't go cheap on equipment. You'll only wind up buying the good stuff later on. And if you're new to handloading, by all means find a mentor. One who gets good results with his ammo. There is a LOT of info out there that is not in the reloading books. It only comes from experience.
Good luck.
dcali
Bullet Maker
I’ll complicate things. Cheap is fine. There are very few poorly made reloading tools on the market. Lee,
who is known for low prices, makes a bunch of very good stuff, for example. It’s not the tools. It’s the knowledge. Spend your money where it does matter - bullets, brass and rifles.
The only reloading gear I would not cheap out on are hand priming tools and ultrasonic cleaners. That’s pretty much it. And maybe not the dirt cheap Lee press. (The Lee classic cast, on the other hand is very good). Even the throwaway cheap lee powder measure has its proponents. You can make some lights out ammo with a partner press, a cheap scale, and factory dies. By lights out I mean capable of .25 MOA groups in a *good* rifle.
who is known for low prices, makes a bunch of very good stuff, for example. It’s not the tools. It’s the knowledge. Spend your money where it does matter - bullets, brass and rifles.
The only reloading gear I would not cheap out on are hand priming tools and ultrasonic cleaners. That’s pretty much it. And maybe not the dirt cheap Lee press. (The Lee classic cast, on the other hand is very good). Even the throwaway cheap lee powder measure has its proponents. You can make some lights out ammo with a partner press, a cheap scale, and factory dies. By lights out I mean capable of .25 MOA groups in a *good* rifle.
Thats a typo as stated. It .0002
For $600 it needs to hold very tight tolerances. Look at the link
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Don't care if the die cost $10,000. It simply will not happen. Once you get some experience hand loading ammo, you will realize that brass doesn't like to stay perfect after sizing. At least not "that" perfect. You will NEVER get .0002" consistency on runout. So my suggestion is to stop worrying about it.
The die walls themselves might be machined to a consistency of .0002" runout, but your brass will never come out that way. At least not consistently cases to case.
The greatest improvement I get with case prep for accuracy comes from neck turning. It drives bullet runout down to negligible numbers and greatly helps to maintain a higher level of consistency in neck tension. Controlling neck tension is much more important in the accuracy equation.
I also like to use the adjustable K&M chamfer tool. It helps to maintain a very unform depth and angle to the chamfer all the way around the case mouth. Assists in creating equal dispersion of gases around the bullet during the crtical moment when it is entering the bore of the barrel.
Next I uniform primer pocket depths and debur the flash holes inside and out to gain more consistency with primer and powder ignition. 21st Century shooting makes a nice depth adjustable uniforming tool so you can accurately control proper primer seating depth. All very important.
There's more to case prep like trimming, annealing, and different methods of sorting, etc... but this post is getting a bit long. Listen to what these guys are telling you to buy for quality equipment. Many are high level competitors with great winning pedigrees. They know what they are talking about.
To the OP, I was asking the exact same questions with a similar thread recently and got some great advice. I'm still waiting until I have a bit more money before investing. As someone has suggested, I prefer the buy-once-cry-once approach (I don't buy cheap tools). However, trying to adopt too many new skills at once could be an exercise in frustration. It is for that reason that I will be trying to keep things simple and only spending top dollar on components that are extremely well-built, but not complicated. For what it's worth, here is my short list.
Forster CoAx Press - Simple and well-built
Unknown Die Set - Originally, I was sold on the Redding competition dies, but as stated before, there is a much higher level of complexity, and I would rather develop the basic skills first. Still researching this one, but I am considering Redding Premium series. Lots of other good dies in that price range
Hornady Die Lock Rings - No brainer. Great locks without any risk of damaging threads
Lapua Brass - Best brass available with the most reloads. Ask anyone on this forum
CCI BR4 Primers - Mostly because the factory is very close to my house and I like to buy local, but great primers nonetheless
Powder and Bullets - Whatever works. Berger, Lapua, and Nosler are on my short list
Balance - I'm picking this up for free from my research lab because it's broken, and I know I can repair it. Accuracy is .0001g (not very helpful for you)
Almost everything else - Going cheap, and I will invest in better equipment as my skill level exceeds my handloads (if that ever happens)
Best of luck,
Forster CoAx Press - Simple and well-built
Unknown Die Set - Originally, I was sold on the Redding competition dies, but as stated before, there is a much higher level of complexity, and I would rather develop the basic skills first. Still researching this one, but I am considering Redding Premium series. Lots of other good dies in that price range
Hornady Die Lock Rings - No brainer. Great locks without any risk of damaging threads
Lapua Brass - Best brass available with the most reloads. Ask anyone on this forum
CCI BR4 Primers - Mostly because the factory is very close to my house and I like to buy local, but great primers nonetheless
Powder and Bullets - Whatever works. Berger, Lapua, and Nosler are on my short list
Balance - I'm picking this up for free from my research lab because it's broken, and I know I can repair it. Accuracy is .0001g (not very helpful for you)
Almost everything else - Going cheap, and I will invest in better equipment as my skill level exceeds my handloads (if that ever happens)
Best of luck,
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