Carbon Ring, what is it, where is it?
- Thread starter powderbrake
- Start date
powderbrake
Gold $$ Contributor
Gentlemen: Thank you for the detailed replies. I will keep an eye on that area. I obviously need to buy Tony Boyer's book.
I generally clean at less than 200 rounds, I use Bore Tech products, and have the ISSO brushes, paste, and JB, so I am prepared for the carbon.
Thanks again, this is a great forum.
I generally clean at less than 200 rounds, I use Bore Tech products, and have the ISSO brushes, paste, and JB, so I am prepared for the carbon.
Thanks again, this is a great forum.
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
I pay special attention to the space just in front of the case mouth every 100 rounds. For a 6mm I use a 6.5mm brush with isso or JB in a handle that is fixed so I can spin the brush in this area
Keeping up with my cleaning by using a bore scope if I waited longer to address this area it took quite a bit more effort to get it out
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Fellows, my point was that the discussion is confused by the over use of the word carbon when what is being referred to is simply powder fouling built up in some location that ones cleaning method has been ineffective in dealing with. This sort of thing can be dealt with by the proper application of some kind of solvent. Hard carbon is a whole other deal. It will not be removed chemically or with a brush, hence my reference to IOSSO. If you do not have a bore scope, you are guessing. If you solved your problem with a solvent, it was not hard carbon. On the other hand, if you used a solvent and your problem was solved, you probably don't care if is was misidentified in the first place. The black stuff that comes out when you brush and patch with your favorite solvent is powder fouling.
Boyd – I generally agree with you, but really what is the difference between powder fouling and hard carbon? I know the first one you can rub off and the second one you cannot, but still I would like to know why hard carbon is so hard because it has to be related to powder fouling which is also carbon.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
It has been transformed by pressure and heat. Some powders do not cause the problem, notably 133. Others, to one degree or another have the problem. Guys that want to baby barrels by avoiding certain cleaning methods and materials may get away with that but, more often than not, they are kidding themselves, and do not have bore scopes to see what the result of their methods are. I have a friend who tends to rely on the color of patches from copper and powder fouling to "see" how clean his barrels are, and has fooled himself more than once. The borescope showed what the problem was. We used IOSSO to fix it. Hard carbon will not show up on a patch with solvent. The patches can be white and you can still have it in the barrel.
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Reloader 15, 17 and Varget seem to be problamatic. Whether it's because of pressure, the cartridges that often use it or ??? I do not know.
My Dasher experience with Varget was seriously impacted with carbon build-up and pressure. That was in spite of my fastidious cleaning procedure. Many if not most solvents do not really deal with the problem. Iosso and Bore Tech do. They are both wonderful products for any carbon problem.
My Dasher experience with Varget was seriously impacted with carbon build-up and pressure. That was in spite of my fastidious cleaning procedure. Many if not most solvents do not really deal with the problem. Iosso and Bore Tech do. They are both wonderful products for any carbon problem.
I've found having a bore scope to regularly check the throat area of my barrels very handy in helping you decide when to use Iosso, I scrubbed my straight 6BR around every 200rnds as I could feel roughness when passing patches through in the throat area and the bore scope confirmed carbon build up. I've just found the same sort of build up with the Dasher after 200rnds, patches picking up a little roughness around throat area compared to a much smoother feeling ahead of the throat area and again bore scope confirmed more carbon build up around lands/throat and 1 to 2" ahead of this area.
Cheers Rushty
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When I bought a borescope I saw my first "carbon ring". I followed Mr Boyer's advice and actually had to spin a very stiff nylon brush with jb to get the thing out. This ring had been there for years and after the "carbon" was gone , there was a stain/discoloratio on the very shiney barrel. I then used the spinning brush/jb/Kroll after every shooting session and noted the ring cleaned away quickly, leaving this portion of the chamber totally clean. Factory barrels often have a lot of distance from case lip to chamber's end, thus a long ring. Keeping cases trimmed to same length helps avoid the potential problem of shooting shorter case, then long ones.
WSnyder
Silver $$ Contributor
A 308 and Varget can certainly build hard carbon. Not uncommon to find it as Boyd describes in the back third of the bore from anywhere in front of the lead to 6-8 inches down the bore. I use IOSSO to keep it in check.
It
I totally agree with you Matt on this subject.
I think it is more than pressure and heat as if that was all it took, there would be a lot more hard carbon around, say in the gas tube of an AR. The more I think about it, I think it takes pressure, heat, but also directional impingement. In an AR bolt, the carbon is located right where the gas comes out and directly impinge on the bolt surface. In the chamber, it is where the bullet just comes out and the gas is blocked by the bullet and goes sideways into the walls of the chamber. It’s like the stuff is sandblasted on the surface where it sticks and accumulates.
So for removing the deposits Boyd speaks of earlier, the hard carbon in the leade area, I have used JB's and an undersized brush with a cloth wrapped around it short stroking the barrel, I have always been nervous about using an abrasive and I would be interested to hear how other people go about it
A tight fitting patch and Iooso. No brush, reversing a brush in a bore is a nono. Short stroke it the same, i wet the bore first with my 50/50 mix of Kroil and Hoppies. The one at the chamber end is done with my turned arrow wetted down with the same mix and cleaned with a nylon brush wrapped with a patch...... jim
Another method is to use a 12" 8-32 brass loop rod with a bronze brush slightly larger that the case neck. Insert the bush with carbon remover into the chamber and just twist it clockwise. My borescope confirms the the carbon ring will disappear.
Ben
Ben
Agree that reversing a brush in a bore is a no no. My question is why not use a limiter so that the brush can only go as far as the end of the chamber and not into the bore? Any thoughts on the downside of this idea?
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
This is why you go one size bigger brush
If 6mm bore use a 6.5 or 277 brush this will get the freebore area and not easily go into the bore to cause a problem. Spin it in the neck area
I like the idea of an oversize brush, not only for the reason you mentioned but it will also brush harder in the chamber.
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