Carbon ring?

[jelenko]

The Flitz doesn't; have the abrasive like JB has:

View attachment 1435252

I see that it says 'non abrasive' but I'm sure it has abrasives in it - similar to Iosso or JB.

It wouldn't clean hard carbon in the throat without some abrasive.

 

[RegionRat]

I see that it says 'non abrasive' but I'm sure it has abrasives in it - similar to Iosso or JB.

It wouldn't clean hard carbon in the throat without some abrasive.

The #39 post I made was to highlight that "Flitz" is now the name of a whole bunch of products. The one called "Flitz Bore Cleaner" does not contain abrasives and is not the same as the old Flitz metal polish which did contain abrasive.

 

[jelenko]

If it has zero abrasives, we need the formula! It takes hard carbon out of the throat just like Iosso.

 

[Pres100]

I'd encourage you to get a Sinclair Chamber Length plug and determine how long the chamber neck length is. Keeping the necks closer to the end of the chamber really helps with the carbon ring.

or you can just use the borescope to see your cartridge in the actual chamber and then measure it


edit: didn't read the entire thread first ...

 

[JimSC]

Thanks mate. Appreciate the advice. I'm trying to cut down on the bronze brushing so this will assist.

can't take the credit. I just took Greg Roman's rimfire cleaning routine modified it a bit since centerfires create a heck of a lot more carbon than a .22LR then added the copper cleaning part

A Guide to .22LR Barrel Care for the Precision Rimfire Shooter - The Truth About Guns

By Gregory J. Roman As anyone involved in the shooting sports knows, precision rimfire is growing rapidly. The internet is full of tons of advice, good and bad, on how to perform better as a shooter. If there is one thing that my time at Vudoo has taught me, it’s that there is not much ... Read more

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[RegionRat]

If it has zero abrasives, we need the formula! It takes hard carbon out of the throat just like Iosso.

Here ya go. But I have never used this version of Flitz Gun Bore Cleaner myself.



These MSDS sheets don't always show everything you would like. For example, if you add that right column up, it is not telling us what makes up the balance. How they can get away with this I don't know, I sure couldn't.
The sheets for regular Flitz metal polish do show the alumina by the way.

 

[RegionRat]

can't take the credit. I just took Greg Roman's rimfire cleaning routine modified it a bit since centerfires create a heck of a lot more carbon than a .22LR then added the copper cleaning part

A Guide to .22LR Barrel Care for the Precision Rimfire Shooter - The Truth About Guns

By Gregory J. Roman As anyone involved in the shooting sports knows, precision rimfire is growing rapidly. The internet is full of tons of advice, good and bad, on how to perform better as a shooter. If there is one thing that my time at Vudoo has taught me, it’s that there is not much ... Read more

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

+1, Greg did a nice write up and it is worth a read, and especially if you like rimfire.

 

[JimSC]

+1, Greg did a nice write up and it is worth a read, and especially if you like rimfire.

I took a brand new CZ 457 Varmint and broke it in using his cleaning routine for 1000 rounds then shot it in a match. In its first ARA factory match it scored a 2500 with a 2325 4 card agg using $10 a box SK

 

[jelenko]

Here ya go. But I have never used this version of Flitz Gun Bore Cleaner myself.

View attachment 1435286

These MSDS sheets don't always show everything you would like. For example, if you add that right column up, it is not telling us what makes up the balance. How they can get away with this I don't know, I sure couldn't.
The sheets for regular Flitz metal polish do show the alumina by the way.

Yeah. [Of course, some very finely ground abrasive wouldn't be a hazardous ingredient]

Have you used Flitz's bore cleaner? If so, do you think there's actually no abrasive in Flitz's bore cleaner?

 

[Rimneck]

Some interesting reading here.

 

[RegionRat]

Have you used Flitz's bore cleaner? If so, do you think there's actually no abrasive in Flitz's bore cleaner?

No, that was offered up by Straightshooter1 in his post.

When I was still working, I was able to analyze commercial products to verify their quality and use, but I have never had my hands or eyes on this Gun Bore Cleaner version of Flitz, and now that I am retired I don't have a say in what they look at in the labs.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I see that it says 'non abrasive' but I'm sure it has abrasives in it - similar to Iosso or JB.

It wouldn't clean hard carbon in the throat without some abrasive.

"Non-abrasive" simply doesn't mean "no abrasive". If there was "no abrasive" I'm sure that list would have stated it that way. Stating that it's Non- abrasive means that it doesn't do any damage to the surface of a bore. Looking at JB, you can see it being referred to as a "bore cleaning compound". The very word "compound" used that way suggests something rather abrasive.

I agree with you that there has to be some kind of "abrasive" in this Flitz. But since it's stated that it's "non-abrasive", I don't see any reason to be concerned that using it a lot would do any kind of damage to a bore, even if overly used. I can't say the same thing for JB.

I think about toothpaste along this line in that there are toothpastes that are designated "non-abrasive" and others that are not. If their not designated at "non-abrasive", I won't use them on my teeth (what I have left, anyway)!

 

[jelenko]

"Non-abrasive" simply doesn't mean "no abrasive". If there was "no abrasive" I'm sure that list would have stated it that way. Stating that it's Non- abrasive means that it doesn't do any damage to the surface of a bore. Looking at JB, you can see it being referred to as a "bore cleaning compound". The very word "compound" used that way suggests something rather abrasive.

I agree with you that there has to be some kind of "abrasive" in this Flitz. But since it's stated that it's "non-abrasive", I don't see any reason to be concerned that using it a lot would do any kind of damage to a bore, even if overly used. I can't say the same thing for JB.

I think about toothpaste along this line in that there are toothpastes that are designated "non-abrasive" and others that are not. If their not designated at "non-abrasive", I won't use them on my teeth (what I have left, anyway)!

That's my thought also. It just couldn't clean like it does without something that's abrasive. I take 'non abrasive' the same way - that it's not going to abrade the surface of the bore.

 

[Mark W]

That's my thought also. It just couldn't clean like it does without something that's abrasive. I take 'non abrasive' the same way - that it's not going to abrade the surface of the bore.

I agree. Rubbing a small amount between two fingers certainly feels like it contains a very fine abrasive.

 

[Dimner]

I think there is a misunderstanding of verbs and nouns here, mostly due to poor description by the manufacturer. They use marketing speak to attempt to convey absolutes when it is really more nuanced. When we talk about carbon cleaning there are two substances that come in contact with your cleaning product

The carbon
The bore/metal

You can use a cleaner that abrades the carbon but is also not abrasive to the bore/metal.

Your bronze brush is abrasive to carbon, however not abrasive to the bore. Not many people have any issues with this abrasive tool.

A nylon brush is abrasive (however less so) to loose carbon, but non abrasive to metal. No one has an issue with this abrasive.

A cleaning patch is an abrasive.

So the manufacture should clarify that their product abrades away the carbon, but is no way hard enough to cause any changes or scratches in the metal. l. There are hundreds of abrasives they could be using in the compounds, it all just matters how hard the abrasives are. If they are diamonds, they would ruin everything, if they were plastics, they would be just fine.

Rember lava soap? I used it all the time at the shop when i was a kid. It contains particles of lava rocks. However, now days many common soaps with 'exfoliants' contain very small plastic particles for the purpose of the exfoliation abrasion.

Bottom line is, they all have abrasives, but is it abrasive to metal? You gotta trust the manufacturers word on this one. Which is a different can of worms.

 

[762willdo]

Empty case in the chamber + bolt locked + insert camera from muzzle end=see exactly where the end of your brass is in relation to the chamber. Trim accordingly, if required.

My bore scope isn’t long enough………….story of my life‍

 

[Webster]

Is this a carbon ring? I recently got a teslong borescope and want to know what I’m looking for. This is my 7 SAW with 513 shots on it. I’d this a carbon ring or normal? View attachment 1435062

Some people say a bronze brush will not scratch a rifle bore. When I was still working I took a barrel stub cut from a barrel before it was chambered. I cross-sectined the stub and took scanning electron microscope images of a new stub bore. I put a bronze brush in an electric drill, rotated it at a low RMP. The idea was that any scratches across the rifling could only be caused by the brush. Don't flame me because of the electric drill. It was the only way to rotate the brush. Electric drill, or not the scratches had to come from the brush. It was a SS Douglas barrel. RC about 30.

File 18 new, 01 brushed, 20 brushed. All 100X mag. Vertical scratches had to be from lapping the bore at the factory.

 

[762willdo]

What exactly was the RPM if you rotate a piece of plastic fast enough it will scratch steel
much like the broom stick handle thru an oak tree in the aftermath of a tornado
if I was going to do it my rpm’s would be in the neighborhood of 6-10 rpm

 

[Ruger15151]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st picture below is with a piece of brass in the chamber, showing the end of the case mouth, the end of the chamber, and beginning of the free-bore, before cleaning/removing the carbon build up/ring:

This next picture below is after some cleaning of the area, again with the case in place:

This 3rd picture is the same, but with the case removed:

At this point the chamber-end is clean & carbon free, with a square transition up to the free-bore, no longer a rounded transition formed from carbon layer (aka: carbon ring).
The area in the picture is like 85% cleaned & carbon free. What is left to be cleaned in the picture is the remaining heavily carbon layered beginning of the free-bore, where the cracking of the carbon layer itself still remains, that can be easily seen in the photo (and of course the rest of the free-bore/throat and bore not in the picture).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is your methid for getting the neck ara that clean?

 

[BoydAllen]

Some people say a bronze brush will not scratch a rifle bore. When I was still working I took a barrel stub cut from a barrel before it was chambered. I cross-sectined the stub and took scanning electron microscope images of a new stub bore. I put a bronze brush in an electric drill, rotated it at a low RMP. The idea was that any scratches across the rifling could only be caused by the brush. Don't flame me because of the electric drill. It was the only way to rotate the brush. Electric drill, or not the scratches had to come from the brush. It was a SS Douglas barrel. RC about 30.

File 18 new, 01 brushed, 20 brushed. All 100X mag. Vertical scratches had to be from lapping the bore at the factory.

Two things: It is my understanding that Douglas barrels are not lapped, so the very light lines that are parallel to the rifling are likely from the surface finish of the button. I wish that you had an identical picture of the finish of a lapped barrel, something like a Krieger or Bartlein. They are finish lapped to a much coarser finish than what is shown in your pictures. The real question hear is whether something has an effect on the accuracy of the barrel.