Carbon Ring, what is it, where is it?

[mousegunner]

A photo i saved . Not mine. View attachment 1085818

Does anyone have an old barrel they removed and sectioned the chamber that shows the carbon ring, throat erosion, etc? Just curious.

 

[Old Tanker]

What about Remington 10X? Abrasive but slightly less so than JB - I think?

 

[jjhall91]

I realize this is a old thread, but I wanted to thank you for the tip on Lucas Fuel Injector.

I did some research with others knowledgeable on the issue and they agreed a combination of Lucas Fuel Injector (they also use Lucas Engine Cleaner which they say is the same thing) and Kroil Oil used on a regular basis has eliminated carbon build up. Roger Amos said he's used it several years and his action/barrel has been free of carbon.

I've used this combination (3 parts Lucas to 1 part Kroil Oil) for 2 years on my new Dasher barrel and my bore scope shows zero build up. I clean about every 40 rounds.

I should have made sure to mention that I use a copper brush (6.5) in the end of the chamber about every 200 rds. I don't know if this is necessary, but I felt it couldn't hurt and a others told me they do so as well.

 

[243winxb]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/erosion-from-blowback-on-necks.3938810/page-2 post #24 GOOGLE-IMAGES-

sectioned rifle Barrel photo erosion

.

 

[243winxb]

Does anyone have an old barrel they removed and sectioned the chamber that shows the carbon ring, throat erosion, etc? Just curious.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=1700264
Search Google Images using "sectioned rifle Barrel photo erosion"

 

[1911nut]

Here’s a Teslong Borescope pic of a Savage 22-250 barrel with about 800 rounds. First time I used the scope, I see a little bit of carbon just at the end of the case neck but none on the leade.

What do you guys think?

The barrel was always cleaned with PatchOut.

 

[Earnhardt]

Great thread guys!
Are there any products that will help with carbon removal, but you NEVER want to use in a barrel because it can/will cause damage to a chamber or throat?

Thanks

 

[Longtrain]

So for removing the deposits Boyd speaks of, the hard carbon, I have used JB's and an undersized brush with a cloth wrapped around it short stroking the barrel, I have always been nervous about using an abrasive and I would be interested to hear how other people go about it

My main competition rifle is a Dasher, but have shot many 223's XTC and 308's in F-T/R. I often shoot 2 day matches, so after about 150 rounds or so the barrel needs a cleaning IMO.

Powder fouling is done away with Butch's, and since my Dasher is a new Brux barrel, I don't see any copper or indications on my patches. However, there is carbon fouling, a bit in the ring area just below the throat, as well as on the lands and grooves. On the bore scope it looks like someone took a magic marker and ran down the lands and grooves.

I have tired just about every product out there to get rid of that carbon fouling, Bore Tech Eliminator seems to make some progress, but I have never been able to totally eliminate it using that alone.

So, I have used JB and an old brass brush with a patch wrapped around it to get the carbon out. Remington 40X Bore Cleaner works well too, just need a bit more time and elbow grease. After 150+ rounds I usually need two regimes of JB to clean that carbon out. One day match, ~70 rounds, one regime. I have used this process for years, several barrels and no, JB did not remove my rifling. The throats wore as expected and I got good performance for the normal life of my barrels. YMMV I guess.

Here's two bore scope photos, they are my barrel's, different guns, but the images are consistent regardless.

PICT003 shows the carbon left in the barrel after Butch's, PICT005 is a clean barrel after Butch's and a JB treatment. PICT003 is a 308 barrel, PICT005 is a 223 barrel

 

[RustyInBend]

It is an excellent question! Picture this in your mind's eye: The cartridge gets inserted into the chamber area. The end of the case mouth ALMOST comes in contact with the "end of the chamber / beginning of the leade of the lands. This "gap" if you will, which is necessary, is an area where the carbon builds up upon firing. If not removed after every round of fire>>>say about 100 with a day's matches or 2 hundred after 2 days, that carbon begins to build and build up rapidly. Before very long, you actually end up with a "barrier" higher than the chamber neck walls and it will take FORCE to push a bullet past it to close the bolt. This will drive pressures up immensely and ruin accuracy. What I do to keep this problem from happening in the first place is, after I use my bronze brush to loosen up the "fouling carbon" in the barrel, I push out the loose stuff first. Then I take an Iosso "Blue Brush", along with Bore-Tech Eliminator and stick it into the neck of the chamber and a bit into the lands. Then I take my hands and "spin" the brush with about 25 turns. Then I short-stroke the neck and about the first 6 inches or barrel and let it soak for awhile>>>>every 10-15 minutes I "spin" the brush and short stroke with the brush, flush with Eliminator. After about 1/2 hour to 45 mins, I spin the brush again in that neck area, scrub out the first 6 inches and push a patch thru. This will keep you from ever getting a "carbon ring"..

When you say "... the brush ..." that you use to remove carbon rings, are you talking about a bore brush, or a chamber brush?

 

[ShootDots]

When you say "... the brush ..." that you use to remove carbon rings, are you talking about a bore brush, or a chamber brush?

One of those (either Iosso or Montana Extreme) very stiff nylon bore brushes. If you believe you already have a carbon ring, take a patch and only push it in so far as to cover the area where the carbon ring is and let it soak for quite awhile, then "spin" the ring out of there with the stiff nylon brush..

 

[RustyInBend]

One of those (either Iosso or Montana Extreme) very stiff nylon bore brushes. If you believe you already have a carbon ring, take a patch and only push it in so far as to cover the area where the carbon ring is and let it soak for quite awhile, then "spin" the ring out of there with the stiff nylon brush..

I'm still confused. A chamber brush is bigger, and doesn't clean down the barrel. A barrel brush is smaller, and doesn't clean in the chamber. So how is the answer to my question "... either one ..."? Sorry, don't mean to sound stupid (but probably failing miserably).

 

[ShootDots]

I'm still confused. A chamber brush is bigger, and doesn't clean down the barrel. A barrel brush is smaller, and doesn't clean in the chamber. So how is the answer to my question "... either one ..."? Sorry, don't mean to sound stupid (but probably failing miserably).

I never said "either one".. It is either an Iosso brush or a Montana Extreme brush (both nylon barrel brushes), not one is a chamber brush and one is a barrel brush... BOTH are barrel brushes. They BOTH have VERY stiff nylon bristles>>>that's why it's either one.

 

[One Eye Pete]

I'm still confused. A chamber brush is bigger, and doesn't clean down the barrel. A barrel brush is smaller, and doesn't clean in the chamber. So how is the answer to my question "... either one ..."? Sorry, don't mean to sound stupid (but probably failing miserably).

When cleaning a carbon ring I normally use an oversized bore brush. The area where the neck sits in the barrel is a larger diameter than the bore therefore you need a larger diameter brush to effectively get the carbon ring. I shoot 6mm & 7mm barrels, for cleaning the carbon ring in the 6mm barrels i usually use an old 7mm brush. For 7mm I use a 30 cal or better yet a 338 brush.
The best way to eliminate the problem is to keep up with it on a regular basis. When i am done shooting (preferably when the barrel is still warm) I put the oversized brush on a short non rotating rod (Sinclair bolt action cleaning tool handle part #749-001-367WB) I wet the brush with Seafoam and I stick it into the chamber until I just feel it enter the neck area. I then rotate it back and forth and slightly in and out. Based on my borescope this works fairly well if the carbon isn't hardened or built up. If you allow the carbon to build up in this area then Iosso on the brush will normally work but I don't like using too much abrasive stuff in my barrels.
Normally I use a bronze brush but based on ShootDots post above I will try a stiff nylon brush. and see how it works.