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HBN, not for me!

I have been using HBN with all the projectiles I shoot from .17 to .510, except lead tips since 2009.
I have noticed scratching similar to yours, never worried about it.
I manage to get pretty good ES & accuracy with the cartridges I shoot.
Haven't seen anything to put me off using it yet.
Its not as slippery as Moly but least it doesn't corrode metal like Moly does when it gets wet.....
 
I have a couple things to add.

Do you know other shooters that had success with Microlubrol Hexagonal Boron Nitride Ultra Fine 0.5 µ micron powder, and not just HBN? There are probably 100+ different grades of HBN. The most important is that you get graphitic HBN and not turbostratic HBN, i.e aligned vs unaligned basal planes.

for instance this company produces many types of HBN powder, many not suitable for lubrication.

https://www.momentive.com/en-US/categories/ceramics/boron-nitride-powder/

98% purity is on the lower end for HBN, you might have contaminated powder.

Did you ever use steel wool to clean your necks? pieces of steel can break off and embed creating a galling situation.
 
michaelbz said:
I have a couple things to add.

Do you know other shooters that had success with Microlubrol Hexagonal Boron Nitride Ultra Fine 0.5 µ micron powder, and not just HBN? There are probably 100+ different grades of HBN. The most important is that you get graphitic HBN and not turbostratic HBN, i.e aligned vs unaligned basal planes.

for instance this company produces many types of HBN powder, many not suitable for lubrication.

https://www.momentive.com/en-US/categories/ceramics/boron-nitride-powder/

98% purity is on the lower end for HBN, you might have contaminated powder.

Did you ever use steel wool to clean your necks? pieces of steel can break off and embed creating a galling situation.
Click to expand...
Microlubrol is what I found. Appears to be a large company with a lot of lubricating products. I don't know of anyone using this product. It could not have been contaminated by me. Only had it about a week and only used a new clean Lee measuring spoon. A couple of the cases were sanded smooth with 2000 grit sandpaper and then polished with a polishing compound, resized. They were surgically cleaned as were the bullets. I seated one new bullet 10 times bare in a polished case with no damage, cleaned both with alcohol, tumbled the same bullet in HBN and when seated again it scratched badly and stuck. Neck tension is not too high.

I'm convinced that there is nothing anyone could do to get this stuff (what I have) not to stick and scratch the cases and bullets. I have tried every combination of componets and conditions. The only time one did not stick and released with normal force was with a fully carboned neck (resized with a Lee collet die) and still it lightly scratched the bullet and neck. One person on this forum brought it to my attention about an ammonia odor. The HBN has no detectable smell but after tumbling for a while, the plastic bottle (which was also perfectly cleaned) has a strong smell of ammonia. If it is actually ammonia, that causes brass to get brittle but I don't know about the copper on the bullets. Some were seated and pulled right away but still stuck. I wasn't aware that there were different types, graphitic HBN and not turbostratic HBN. What brand and product do you recommend?
 
My experience with HBN resides with forging dies, not lubricating bullets. I was just pointing out there could be something wrong with your powder. Search the forums for brands other people use with success. I know Tubbs is a big proponent of HBN, sells his own branded HBN, and his products are typically well regarded. I personally have not used his HBN

Microlubriol I believe repackages other peoples HBN.

I am not suggesting you contaiminated the powder.

I am only making these suggestions if you want to continue experimenting. Most people shoot bare bullets.

My hands on advice is this: don't use steel wool/brushes to clean necks, make sure your trim/chamfer tools are sharp. Do not polish your necks using jewelers rouge or whatever 2000 grit abrasive you are using. if you are using a bronze brush up/down motion only, If you are using a nylon brush rotational motion is fine.
 
michaelbz said:
My experience with HBN resides with forging dies, not lubricating bullets. I was just pointing out there could be something wrong with your powder. Search the forums for brands other people use with success. I know Tubbs is a big proponent of HBN, sells his own branded HBN, and his products are typically well regarded. I personally have not used his HBN

Microlubriol I believe repackages other peoples HBN.

I am not suggesting you contaiminated the powder.

I am only making these suggestions if you want to continue experimenting. Most people shoot bare bullets.

My hands on advice is this: don't use steel wool/brushes to clean necks, make sure your trim/chamfer tools are sharp. Do not polish your necks using jewelers rouge or whatever 2000 grit abrasive you are using. if you are using a bronze brush up/down motion only, If you are using a nylon brush rotational motion is fine.
Click to expand...

I don't normally polish inside case next. This was just experimental to see what would happen with a smooth surface. It made the gripping worse. There could be something wrong with the powder. Years ago I used some Kendall GT racing oil. It allowed metal to transfer from the rocker arm shafts (steel) to the rocker arms (cast iron). It also wiped the flat tappet lifters out. Luckily, the cam survived. Whatever allowed it to handle high pressure was missing.

As of now, I hate to waste more money potentially getting the same results. I don't personally know anyone using HBN to try some of theirs. For now the combination that works is Imperial dry lube in the case neck and a bare bullet. Funny that there is a strong smell of ammonia after tumbling. I put an old case and bullet in the bottle I tumbled in and will leave it sit for a few days to see what happens. There is no odor to the powder so it may be a chemical combination with the copper, brass, steel BB's, or the plastic bottle. It is like the one you get pills such as Ibuprofen. I like to experiment and also know why something works or doesn't work. Every once in a while, you just have to forget about it and go on. I would send anyone a sample of this HBN that wanted to try it.
 
"Microlubrol HBN, the worlds greatest abrasive!" Just playing with it to see how bad it is. I took a new case and new A-max bullet, put on a light coating of HBN in one spot on the side of the bullet, picked it up end to end, so I couldn't get much pressure (less than 1 lb) without puncturing my finger and rubbed 5 times across the surface. It felt like grit under the bullet. and it scratched the surface. The bare bullet didn't leave a trace of a mark. Then took an old compact mirror and tried rubbing the bullet boat tail down (smooth rounded end). No mark what so ever. Add a little HBN, repeat, and it scratched glass. I also tried the bullet with HBN over a drop of oil on the case but this time it never left a mark. Possibly the oil allowed the particles to float from under the contact area. Not saying all or any other HBN is bad but what I have is horrible. It is not in any sense of the word, a lubricant. The scratches are many times wider than the particle size, so it must clump together under pressure even though it is not sticking together in the canister, not damp or contaminated. If no one wants this, it goes in the trash can.
Scratch.jpg
 
That is NOT Hbn! I don't know what your using, but I would get some from a different source and brand. I've been coating my 6mm bullets for over a year now and the only thing that gets scratched is nothing!
 
pburr said:
That is NOT Hbn! I don't know what your using, but I would get some from a different source and brand. I've been coating my 6mm bullets for over a year now and the only thing that gets scratched is nothing!
Click to expand...
I think you're right. Maybe white powdered diamond dust. What brand do you use?
 
Why don't you take this up with Microlubrol, the company you purchased it from? Other than the hBN I sold a number of years ago, most I know have purchased from LowerFriction, to include other businesses that sell the stuff.
 
JRS said:
Why don't you take this up with Microlubrol, the company you purchased it from? Other than the hBN I sold a number of years ago, most I know have purchased from LowerFriction, to include other businesses that sell the stuff.
Click to expand...
I tried to contact them last week by email. May just have to call them. I would like to know what's going on.
 
I have the same brand of HBN, MICROLUBROL 1/2 oz HEXAGONAL BORON NITRIDE hBN Powder ULTRA FINE 0.5 µ micron.
It is possible they packaged up the wrong HBN because I have had great results with it.
 
JRS said:
Whether 5 micron, 1.5 micron, 0.5 micron or 70 nm, it is not an abrasive.
Click to expand...
Mine seems to be. I tumbled all the cases (about 22) and bullets(about 30) including about 20 200.20x Bergers that were never seated. There was probably a little bit of the HBN powder in the case, but not much and I had wiped all of them off. I tumbled them for over 4 hours in Walnut media. I took another new Hornady case and tried seating one of the coated Bergers that was just tumbled. I still scratched in the same pattern but very lightly just above the boat tail. I did notice something else. These are the prettiest cases I've ever seen. Like they were micro polished, even some that had been fired several times before. I've tumbled cases this long or longer before and they have never looked this good. Just an observation. I emailed Microlubrol again and am waiting on a reply (again). I'd like to send it back and have it tested if they will actually do that.

Since this is evidently in the cleaning media, it gets dumped and my tumbler and media separator all get scrubbed to remove any contamination. Those bullets and cases won't be used again.
 
Hopefully this, whatever it is, has not damaged your bore. Might be something to follow up with if you run into a problem. Good luck.

Paul
 
I pulled some 143ELDXs from a ladder test in the weekend with my 6.5/7mm Blaser Magnum.

They were in brand new necked down Norma 7 Blaser Mag brass.

There was very little to no scratching on my HBN coated projectiles.....
 
Boyd good reference of varmint Al! He's a great man. like many here, so willing to help. T I hope you get everything sorted out, I'm curious to hear what you were actually using because it doesn't seem like normal hbn?? Anyway do you think your going to try it again with a new product or stick to shooting nudes?
 
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