HBN, not for me!
- Thread starter T-shooter
- Start date
If I didn't just read 6 pages of this I'd swear you guys were making this up as an April fools joke
No joking, every bit of it is true. I'm as shocked as anyone that this doesn't work and is this bad, but I have tried everything I can think of. Has to be a bad product. So far Microlubrol has not responded to 2 emails.
I'm with the guys who think you got something other than hBN. I'm using .5 micro hBN and don't get any scratches and after tumbling the bullets are hazy and slick to hold. I have less SD and ES and picked up velocity over my old pre coated max. I'm going to try the next finer grade whenever I finish this pound off. It's very possible I'll be dead before I run through this pound though...
Found a little information online in another forum about HBN.
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A fine powder of approximately 0.5 microns, but this isn't the stuff needed to provide the lubricity we are after because it agglomerates (to gather into a ball, mass, or cluster, uncontrolled buildup, caking, bridging, or lumping). A further process makes the particulate a bit bigger (around the 10 micron size) and in this form it is a flat platelet that considerably increases it's ability to reduce friction.
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That seems to be what I was seeing. The scratches are many times larger than the particle size and the particles seem to be forced into irregularities in the surface where it clumps together forming a solid under pressure. Even after polishing and repeated seatings, every case I had showed this pattern of wear and that's the same spacing as the scratches in the bullets. This is a Lapua case.
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A fine powder of approximately 0.5 microns, but this isn't the stuff needed to provide the lubricity we are after because it agglomerates (to gather into a ball, mass, or cluster, uncontrolled buildup, caking, bridging, or lumping). A further process makes the particulate a bit bigger (around the 10 micron size) and in this form it is a flat platelet that considerably increases it's ability to reduce friction.
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That seems to be what I was seeing. The scratches are many times larger than the particle size and the particles seem to be forced into irregularities in the surface where it clumps together forming a solid under pressure. Even after polishing and repeated seatings, every case I had showed this pattern of wear and that's the same spacing as the scratches in the bullets. This is a Lapua case.
This is the info that I was wondering about,(doesn't corrode metal like Moly does). I've had issues with Moly in this aspect. I've used Moly for years and liked the results until I went back and looked at some loaded and stored (for more than a year) ammo. There was a lot of corrosion (blue crap) around the bullet case junction. And when the bullets were pulled from the loaded rounds I found that the powder next to (touching) the bullet was blue also. Still I keep using the Moly on bullets that were to be shot with in a week or so with no issues. But now I'm convinced to try HBN, wish me luck. Thanks for all of the input.
I can't say that all HBN is bad but I will say the brand/type I bought was total garbage. All the cases and bullets I tried it on went into the trash. That's the most abrasive stuff I've even seen. It scratched glass. My advise is to test it before firing any rounds through your rifle. When it takes up to 10 times the force to pull a bullet out of a new case vs a case and bullet with no coating, something is definitely wrong. Would have been bad for it to do to the barrel what it did to the brass.
LPW, I wish you luck and let us know how it works for you.
LPW, I wish you luck and let us know how it works for you.
Sorry, ... LWP
Also how do you clean prep your bullets before applying HBN? I swish mine around in alcohol and then let dry in the sun on some paper towels. And do you add a alcohol and HBN solution or water in the bottle in which you are polishing the bullets in or just dry? I've switched over to wet moly (water) as apposed to my old method of dry.That's the method I just for moly coating I have not tried HBN yet. I was wondering if anyone has tried water or alcohol in their mix for HBN coating? Alcohol because that's what I've read others coating the barrel with(alcohol+HBN) before shooting HBN coated bullets.
The water and moly solution really made the finished product look nice and shinny with only towel drying and then placing in the sun for complete dry. A big bifference from dry moly coating. Maybe I would have the same results using HBN and water or alcohol as apposed to dry? Has anyone tried this method?
I'm a big fan of the wet method to apply Moly. It works great and I figured it might work with HBN too.
My first attempt with HBN was dry with bullets only. Then with bullets and BB's. In both cases I could detect a coating of some sort, but it was nearly impossible to tell if the bullets were properly coated or not. Plus it was very messy because I was faced with the job of separating the bullets from a bunch of very fine powder which went all over the place.
So I tried the wet method and it was worse. Because the finished coating is essentially transparent, I found it impossible to determine if the wet method applied a lot of HBN or none at all. I think the answer is non at all because they didn't feel any different, but I'm not sure.
So I went back to wet Moly coating with is clean, simple, quick, and the bullets come out looking like they've been black chrome plated. They're perfect in every way and you can't rub the Moly off with your fingers.
Separating the bullets from the Moly slurry is a simply matter of pouring them through a sieve and giving them a quick rinse under the tap. The left over Moly goes back into a 1# powder storage bottle and the rinsed off excess goes down my utility sink drain.
I used alcohol for cleaning. I used bb's in a bottle with dry HBN and run in the tumbler for an hour or two. The bullets did feel slick in my fingers but really stuck in the cases. I even tried putting some HBN in a drop of oil and it still scratched the brass, but somewhat less.
Ok so Mozella has tried hBN and water without any good results. Good to know. Has anyone else tried with water or Alcohol? Alcohol is curious because I've heard of people using this with hBN as a swabbing treatment before shooting hBN coated bullets. Just thinking that if they use Alcohol for the barrel process why not use it in the coating process? Kinda see where I'm going with this?
I forgot to mention that I do an extra step that I do that I don't think I see anyone else doing. I clean the bullets with acetone then heat the bullets in the oven along with the BB's. After tumbling the bullets for three hours I separate the bullets from the BB's and then toss them back into the tumbler with corn cobb media for about ten minutes. It removes the caked hBN and leaves the bullets slick without excess hBN. I put a little hBN into the cobb the first time to "season" it and now just use the same cobb. I know I'm not removing too much hBN because the bullets are slicker than when they went in with the caked specks on them.
Hi,
I realize this is an old dead thread, but for what is worth: I have had identical problems pulling my HBN coated bullets - for whatever reason- and had my case necks scratched exactly same as you have. I never did solve that problem and I minimized the issue by using dry neck lube. My HBN is all so from Microlubol and a same grade, purchased about 2016. I am considering dumping my HBN, all my coated bullets and not fire another loaded round after reading the whole thread. Did you ever get any answers from the supplier? Is there anyone out there who had the same issue and solved it by switching to a different brand of HBN? I wonder if there is any way to find out if I may have damaged my barrel - thankfully, it shoots fine. Would a boroscope examination show any possible problem?
Sorry to hear you are having the same problem. I never found a solution and just gave up. I never contacted the supplier but did find several other people that experienced similar problems with HBN. Most people would not know anything was wrong unless they pulled the bullets back out. The HBN coated bullets felt slick to my fingers. I just use Imperial dry lube when seating the bullets and it seems to work well. If you check your bore and find anything, let me know. It's crazy that seating a bullet in a clean case with no more than .002" interference fit would take so much force to pull out. I used a 50 lb postal scale and pressed it against the handle on the press and in some cases bottomed the scale out before the bullet released. I found a similar press to my Lee Breech Lock Classic Cast Iron press that listed the mechanical advantage at 3-1/4 to 1. That could make the pressure necessary to pull the bullet out of the case over 160 lbs and maybe more.
Using Tubbs' branded HBN on 6.5mm bullets with 0.0015-0.0005" 'neck tension' I had no issues with load precision in competition loads for F-class at 600yds. My seating pressures were in the range of 16lbs up to 60lbs in that NT range. I quit using it as I saw no advantage compared to uncoated bullets.
Robin
Robin
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