Annealing brass, opinions VS facts &

[Art Dirindin]

Holly crap-olla and I thought people had strong opinions about politics, it seams if one wishes to engage in SERIUOS verbal hand to hand combat forget about the reasonably bloodless realm of political debate comparatively speaking, start a discussion about the proper way to anneal rifle brass if you wish to be lower lip deep in a verbiage firefight.

Well unfortunately Im going to do exactly that because I have to learn how to anneal my brass. Why you might ask? well because I simply can not afford to spend $300-$1000 on an semi to fully automated annealing machine and I also have chosen 300 wsm as my preferred cartridge and 300 wsm brass is either or both VERY scarce and VERY expensive, and I also wish to dramatically increase how much and often I shoot (not just 300wsm but .308/Win as well) so accordingly I must maximize my brass life.

Like most newbies, I went about researching annealing at MANY multiple web sources like this one, and quickly became overwhelmed and the end result was the infamous state AKA "Paralyisis by analysis"

After much consideration I felt my options were the fallowing based on cost VS return on expense:
#1-Use torch and cordless screw driver method
I really like this method as I would only need to anneal 50 or fewer pieces of brass at a sitting, but reaching and maintain proper temp is the main issue. I know many use and swear by templaque but an equal number dismiss templaque as inaccurate for use in annealing and therefore useless.

#2-Salt bath annealing, sounds great but has certain safety issues, but I am leaning strongly towards it as the best all around compromise of cost (+/- $100), accuracy, practicality and safety
#3-Soaking in molten lead annealing, based on my research (and because of my quite limited knowledge I admit I could be wrong) molten lead soaking seams about ideal in all respects EXCEPT in terms of safety. I really don't want to deal with risking ingesting lead be it from direct contact or from breathing fumes. I know I can completely eliminate all contact with lead of my unprotected skin, but elimination the inhalation hazard is more difficult.
#4-Send my brass out to an annealing service, great idea but how do I know they are doing it correctly and turn around time might or might not be an issue.

So I have but two questions;
#1-All things considered is the salt bath system the best all around compromise as I believe, or am I better off with using one of the other 3 options?
#2-If I am going to do my own annealing and salt bath is the way to go would a person who is 100% confident they have mastered salt bath annealing tell me what temp they use and how long the anneal their brass for.

Thank you,
Arthur.

 

[SheepDog]

Salt bath is a good way to anneal your brass without too many problems. There is one problem with the salt bath: you have to keep any water of any kind from getting into the molten salt. It will explode throwing molten salt in every direction. A drop of sweat from your brow could put you in the hospital.

The next best choice is a small inductive unit. You can build them yourself for $100 to $200 and be good to go for years. If I only had 50 cases to do at a time this is what I would choose.

I made an automated torch unit for myself because what was available was more expensive and much too complicated. I can rack 200 3006 cases and let the machine run. In about a half hour they are all done and I can load my next batch. I can reload while the annealer does its job because I don't have to babysit it. My unit has one motor and one torch. I set it using Tempilaq on the inside of the neck. Since the flame only hits the shoulder region once the neck gets to 750F the process is complete. To use with different cases I simply adjust the flame until the Tempilaq changes color.

 

[Sniper338]

I think your making it harder on yourself than it really is...

Id personally buy a annealing machine if I could afford it, I could use it. BUT I cant afford it anytime soon, too much crap going on in the real world.

Ive used a butane plumbers torch for YEARS. $15 at walmart...

I bought a case holder that chucks up in a cordless drill from 21st century shooting, put in a case, anneal it, and do another.

Get some scrap brass and practice on it.. it takes all of 3 seconds per piece of brass. If you pay attention you see two color changes in the brass, one when first exposed to the heat, snd the second color change about 2 seconds after that and its done... comes out looking just like lapua did it theirself...

Its really easy, quit making it hard on yourself. I have templaq, but dont use it.

Get scrap brass and play with it first. Hold one in too long, notice the orange hot color it gets, thats too long...

It literally only takes 3 to 4 seconds. I was nervous when I first tried too, then was dumb founded as to how easy it really is.

Dont complicate it..

 

[T-shooter]

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I use the cordless drill and torch method. I don't anneal that many and never over 100 at a time. I flattened the nozzle on a propane torch for a narrow flame and keep the flame pretty small. I put the flame on the shoulder so soften it and not to overdo the necks. I use a timer and about 5 seconds for .223 brass and 7 seconds for .308 brass. (That will vary depending upon how you do things and how much heat is used) I also dump them into water to prevent the heat from spreading more than I want. I initially used the Tempilstiks to be sure I wasn't getting the bottom too hot. Here is a photo when I was experimenting. I think it was a 450 degree stick.

If you try this way, experiment on some old brass. Overcook a couple to see what happens. I noticed when annealed right there is a slight amount of spring back on the neck opening. I could squeeze it with pliers and see it move and return, but this is only just a few thousandths. You have to look carefully to see it. If you over cook it, the metal is dead and will not return. once you get your method perfected, it will go smoothly. Timing is the most important thing. I don't to enough to warrant investing in a machine although it would be better, easier.

 

[Art Dirindin]

I think your making it harder on yourself than it really is...

Id personally buy a annealing machine if I could afford it, I could use it. BUT I cant afford it anytime soon, too much crap going on in the real world.

Ive used a butane plumbers torch for YEARS. $15 at walmart...

I bought a case holder that chucks up in a cordless drill from 21st century shooting, put in a case, anneal it, and do another.

Get some scrap brass and practice on it.. it takes all of 3 seconds per piece of brass. If you pay attention you see two color changes in the brass, one when first exposed to the heat, snd the second color change about 2 seconds after that and its done... comes out looking just like lapua did it theirself...

Its really easy, quit making it hard on yourself. I have templaq, but dont use it.

Get scrap brass and play with it first. Hold one in too long, notice the orange hot color it gets, thats too long...

It literally only takes 3 to 4 seconds. I was nervous when I first tried too, then was dumb founded as to how easy it really is.

Dont complicate it..

The torch method was actually my first choice and seeing as I already have everything I need (got some 750* templaque for free yesterday) I will try that first before spending any additional $$$.

Thanks,
Art.

 

[260 Ravage]

I think your making it harder on yourself than it really is...

Id personally buy a annealing machine if I could afford it, I could use it. BUT I cant afford it anytime soon, too much crap going on in the real world.

Ive used a butane plumbers torch for YEARS. $15 at walmart...

I bought a case holder that chucks up in a cordless drill from 21st century shooting, put in a case, anneal it, and do another.

Get some scrap brass and practice on it.. it takes all of 3 seconds per piece of brass. If you pay attention you see two color changes in the brass, one when first exposed to the heat, snd the second color change about 2 seconds after that and its done... comes out looking just like lapua did it theirself...

Its really easy, quit making it hard on yourself. I have templaq, but dont use it.

Get scrap brass and play with it first. Hold one in too long, notice the orange hot color it gets, thats too long...

It literally only takes 3 to 4 seconds. I was nervous when I first tried too, then was dumb founded as to how easy it really is.

Dont complicate it..

 

[gotcha]

[QUOTE="T-shooter, post: I also dump them into water to prevent the heat from spreading more than I want. [/QUOTE]
Good advice there

 

[260 Ravage]

I'm all in with sniper 338. I found an online metronome. Iset the beat to sound off every second. I have found that all small propane are not created equally. Experiment just a little and you will onto the procedure.

 

[T-shooter]

The torch method was actually my first choice and seeing as I already have everything I need (got some 750* templaque for free yesterday) I will try that first before spending any additional $$$.

Thanks,
Art.

Keep the heat up high and do not get the lower case hot and weaken it. Just play with a few throw-aways first to learn on. I've had to anneal new brass because it wouldn't straighten in the die. I had .007-.009" runout on turned necks and after annealing and resizing, it averaged .002".

 

[Willie]

To Each, His Own --- for the small amount of brass you're talking about, send it to someone who has an AMP unit setup in his brass service. Turnaround is fast and results are very consistent.

I also can see why someone would want to develop his own method for annealing and that's fine. Consistency is the key to any method and you would have to attain that for good results down range. Some people have good results from their drill/torch method, others not so much. Have a go at whatever method you choose, the target will tell you how well you're doing.

 

[geraldgee]

#4-Send my brass out to an annealing service, great idea but how do I know they are doing it correctly and turn around time might or might not be an issue.

I send my brass to DJ's Brass (http://www.djsbrass.com/). He is fast, extremely capable, and quite reasonable. I live within a cpl hundred miles and if I send my brass on a Friday, it's always returned on or before the following Friday. He is a long standing member here and a great guy to boot.

I strongly commend his work to you. Good luck.

 

[sdean]

2nd. DJ's

 

[tn6br]

To Each, His Own --- for the small amount of brass you're talking about, send it to someone who has an AMP unit setup in his brass service. Turnaround is fast and results are very consistent.

I also can see why someone would want to develop his own method for annealing and that's fine. Consistency is the key to any method and you would have to attain that for good results down range. Some people have good results from their drill/torch method, others not so much. Have a go at whatever method you choose, the target will tell you how well you're doing.

@laveritt has a amp annealer and is a good guy to deal with for brass prep service. Look him up.

 

[RW]

depending on how handy you are you can build your own with the plans on you tube but i have to say it does take longer to make than you would think unless you have the right tools you have to get creative! and it takes longer than what you might think but when done they are nice!!

 

[bsekf]

If I was starting out I would try #2, the salt method. I use 2 torches in a dark room and it works just fine for my 50 at a time operation.

Bill

 

[Joe R]

Holly crap-olla and I thought people had strong opinions about politics, it seams if one wishes to engage in SERIUOS verbal hand to hand combat forget about the reasonably bloodless realm of political debate comparatively speaking, start a discussion about the proper way to anneal rifle brass if you wish to be lower lip deep in a verbiage firefight.

Well unfortunately Im going to do exactly that because I have to learn how to anneal my brass. Why you might ask? well because I simply can not afford to spend $300-$1000 on an semi to fully automated annealing machine and I also have chosen 300 wsm as my preferred cartridge and 300 wsm brass is either or both VERY scarce and VERY expensive, and I also wish to dramatically increase how much and often I shoot (not just 300wsm but .308/Win as well) so accordingly I must maximize my brass life.

Like most newbies, I went about researching annealing at MANY multiple web sources like this one, and quickly became overwhelmed and the end result was the infamous state AKA "Paralyisis by analysis"

After much consideration I felt my options were the fallowing based on cost VS return on expense:
#1-Use torch and cordless screw driver method
I really like this method as I would only need to anneal 50 or fewer pieces of brass at a sitting, but reaching and maintain proper temp is the main issue. I know many use and swear by templaque but an equal number dismiss templaque as inaccurate for use in annealing and therefore useless.



So I have but two questions;
#1-All things considered is the salt bath system the best all around compromise as I believe, or am I better off with using one of the other 3 options?

Thank you,
Arthur.

Arthur,
You're making things way more complicated than they really are.

If you're annealing 50 pieces or less at the time. The socket and drill method is the only thing that makes sense for you.

1. Its simple.
2. Its cheap.
3. its reliable.
4. Easy to setup and take down.
5. Takes little storage space.
6. All you have to do is count to 7 Mississippi.

The machine annealers make sense for guys that shoot a couple hundreds of rounds a month or more. I've owned and used the Annealez, Benchsource, AMP, Giraud, MRB annealer (my current favorite) and Skip's home made one. They all have pros and cons, but for your volume IMO the drill is the way to go.









Good luck,

Joe

 

[savagedasher]

Arthur,
You're making things way more complicated than they really are.

If you're annealing 50 pieces or less at the time. The socket and drill method is the only thing that makes sense for you.

1. Its simple.
2. Its cheap.
3. its reliable.
4. Easy to setup and take down.
5. Takes little storage space.
6. All you have to do is count to 7 Mississippi.

The machine annealers make sense for guys that shoot a couple hundreds of rounds a month or more. I've owned and used the Annealez, Benchsource, AMP, Giraud, MRB annealer (my current favorite) and Skip's home made one. They all have pros and cons, but for your volume IMO the drill is the way to go.

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Good luck,

Joe

This's good as it gets. Larry

 

[CaptainMal]

On my iPhone I have a Metronome app. Set it for one beat every second ( marks 60/min) and set it to loud. Using a method like Joe above, I know the time and torch setting from experience with different brands and sizes of brass. Got that experience in a darker environment "sacrificing" different pieces of brass. As soon as I can see any kind of flow from the case neck, it's too much time. Next test is to cut off a second or two until you see nothing but know another second or two and it's glowing and too hot. Now I have a "feel" for the time.

That time varies with the brass. Lapua BR brass in any variation actually takes me 8-9 seconds. Something like Remington 30-30 as little as 5 seconds. Lapua 6.5 Ackley ( 260 brass) is also like the BR Lapua but switch to Remington 260 and it's like 6 seconds. My 270 Win and 7MM mag stuff is in the 7 second range and no more.

NOT rocket science. Couple minutes and I think you can pretty much figure it out.

Others might chime in with aghast remarks about my times. If you use a double-torch machine method your times are in the 3-4 second range. Different torch tips also make a difference. I played and played with tips and finally found one that gives me a tiny pencil point flame, which I have just below the center of the neck.

Oh --- If you don't use a metronome but try to do the "thousand one, thousand two" in your head or look at some kind of second hand, it will drive you nuts. Then you will end up like me.

 

[GNERGY]

I do mine just like Joe R does. I watched a video that shows how to do them in the dark first so that you can see the neck just start to glow and that is hot enough. Usually 4 seconds for mine and I drop them on a large wet towel on a cookie sheet to help cool and not dent the necks. It is a very fast method, I did 300 25-06 in just under an hour, what gets tired is your wrists holding up the drill. I use the torch that has the 3 foot hose and just clamp the nozzle end where you want. Just try it and you will say DAMN, that was easy.
Tarey

 

[wapiti25]

I use the same method Joe R does with one change, a old wet rag in the bottom of the pan. They will cool to the touch quicker.