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Scope Check

I was told by a F-Class ranked competitor that had to box test using full range of adjustment, or so what.... So maybe 24moa would mean nothing to him.

If the dual scope mount system in the pic is your "scope tester" , I think its a bit much and limited in what can do. Couldn't you just own a set of Burris mounts with pic rail caps and compare both scopes on same vertical plane? Mount one scope over another?

The boresight-collimator with integral grid is a great diagnosis tool and excels at aiding correct scope & mount installation.

How many F-Class or others use brakes, or 6mm XC class light recoiling rifles? How does a 11lb light recoiling rifle shot from a bipod or rest with bagged front and rear position knock loose? I have a .260rem that weighs about 10.5 lbs w/o scope or mount. 13lb gun like that w/o brake doesn't recoil much, but certainly more than a 6xc or .223rem. Still...

How many variables to consider if impact has changed? Scope is only one of several.
 
Collimator tells you scope is broken.

How the hell does it matter if scope moves under recoil, if it resettles to same place? Your comment above seems to disregard this fact... When rifle fires, the scope movement don't matter after shooter has gotten his/her sight picture and pressed trigger. Don't matter if it moves under recoil, IF it resettles on same point and doesn't lose zero.

If you got a broken scope. It takes 2mins to see on collimator grid, for setting up and digging out your log. That is what matters, point of impact shift, or reticle movement from one shot to another... Your log tells you where reticle should be on the grid. Is it there? If not, you got problem. mayb not a broken scope? Maybe a scope base or ring prolem...

No need to reinvent a super complicated wheel. $90 and you have all you need for all scope setup and diagnostic concerns
 
Hogan,
For someone who claims to know so much about scopes, I am frankly surprised that you know so little about scope checkers. They have been around for over a decade. The first, and to date only commercial production of this product was done by Charlie Hood. Neither your collimator or a box test can give the information that they do. This is how they are used. A reference scope and the scope that is being tested are mounted and adjusted so that they both have their cross hairs on the same point on a target, typically at 100 yards. The rifle is shot a number of times, and after each firing the scopes are checked to see if the one that is being tested still has the intersection of its cross hairs on the same spot, with the reference scope is on target. Many if not most shooters do not need to worry about the small movements that benchrest shooters must...if they want to win. You can waste an immense amount of time chasing your tail trying to fix a problem that comes from a slightly erratic scope. Brand new scopes are no better in this respect than older ones. Back in the day, before March scopes were made, a friend (who is a lot better funded than I) bought and tested 8 brand new 45X Leupolds, using a scope checker. Half of them moved, in the range of .020 to .060 at 100 yards. Most rifles and shooters are not good enough for this level of malfunction to matter. For top benchrest shooters it does.
 
hogan said:
Collimator tells you scope is broken.

How the hell does it matter if scope moves under recoil, if it resettles to same place? Your comment above seems to disregard this fact... When rifle fires, the scope movement don't matter after shooter has gotten his/her sight picture and pressed trigger. Don't matter if it moves under recoil, IF it resettles on same point and doesn't lose zero.

If you got a broken scope. It takes 2mins to see on collimator grid, for setting up and digging out your log. That is what matters, point of impact shift, or reticle movement from one shot to another... Your log tells you where reticle should be on the grid. Is it there? If not, you got problem. mayb not a broken scope? Maybe a scope base or ring prolem...

No need to reinvent a super complicated wheel. $90 and you have all you need for all scope setup and diagnostic concerns
Click to expand...

Because they are not settling to the same place. Thats exactly what a scope checker tests, and I know of no other way to test that. Not talking tracking, box tests, glass, exc. Talking ability of a scope to allow you to shoot small groups.
 
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hogan said:
Collimator tells you scope is broken.

How the hell does it matter if scope moves under recoil, if it resettles to same place? Your comment above seems to disregard this fact... When rifle fires, the scope movement don't matter after shooter has gotten his/her sight picture and pressed trigger. Don't matter if it moves under recoil, IF it resettles on same point and doesn't lose zero.

If you got a broken scope. It takes 2mins to see on collimator grid, for setting up and digging out your log. That is what matters, point of impact shift, or reticle movement from one shot to another... Your log tells you where reticle should be on the grid. Is it there? If not, you got problem. mayb not a broken scope? Maybe a scope base or ring prolem...

No need to reinvent a super complicated wheel. $90 and you have all you need for all scope setup and diagnostic concerns
Click to expand...
Here is a very recent post from a shooter who has had considerable success (HOF) in competition shooting. If anybody knows about detecting scopes changing POA, I put my money on his method (which makes no mention what-so-ever about a $90 portable scope "collimator"):

Jefferson,

Ive spent a lot of time testing scopes. Much the same as what Alex is doing with the scope checker. Billy and I would always test our scopes before a big match. Anything mechanical can and will break. At one point I had 20,000 dollars of glass in my safe and it was all moving. Out of desperation I tried a Fixed 36 power Valdada and I haven't looked back. I've shot them out to a 1000 yards but I feel the 36 power is a little light for Mid and Long range shooting.

I've got a 15x55 NF and so far it's been rock solid but I'm keeping an eye on it!

Bart

PS
If you have a solid scope take care of it. Treat it like the delicate Precision instrument it is. I cringe every time I see someone carrying a 17 pound gun by the scope. Like it's an M16. Might not hurt a thing, but you won't catch me doing it.
 
Every "collimator" I have ever seen had steel rods that go in the bore. None would repeat and all of them were real good at gunching up the rifling...right at the most important area of a barrel, the all critical muzzle. There is only one tool that is more devastating to rifling than a collimator...that ridiculous little muzzle crowning tool that Brownell's {among others} sells. Tool steel pilot snug to the rifling right at the muzzle and blast away with an electric drill.....one thing about it, use enough of either one and you wont have to worry about "scope problems".
It's always amazing to me how some folks can sound and write in such an intelligent manner, yet never fail to disclose those "true colors". I'll never forget the clown that listed as his credentials in optics that he "wrote the third most important paper on eyeglass repair" I would be too ashamed to admit I did "third" best at anything!!!!!
 
msinc said:
Every "collimator" I have ever seen had steel rods that go in the bore. None would repeat and all of them were real good at gunching up the rifling...right at the most important area of a barrel, the all critical muzzle. There is only one tool that is more devastating to rifling than a collimator...that ridiculous little muzzle crowning tool that Brownell's {among others} sells. Tool steel pilot snug to the rifling right at the muzzle and blast away with an electric drill.....one thing about it, use enough of either one and you wont have to worry about "scope problems".
It's always amazing to me how some folks can sound and write in such an intelligent manner, yet never fail to disclose those "true colors". This ones about 50 shades of stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
You are referring to those cheap inferior collimators. The collimator suggested to weed out bad scopes was in the upper price tier at $90 which should have much more high end diagnostic ability.:rolleyes:
 
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Then I guess mine aren't screwed up from riding in my gun trailer in a padded case! Hope I get a chance to shoot it again just to make sure it wasn't conditions, or Me.

Joe Salt
 
I spent all winter getting 2 custom ppcs built, it took selling alot of stuff(guns,equipment,etc) and my wife and I worked alot of overtime hours to make it happen. We put 2 top shelf scopes on them I had always wanted but hadn't been able to afford. If there is a chance there is a problem in this line of scopes I want to know. We are new to short range br and have enough to worry with while learning to tune, shoot, handle the gun properly on the bench,read flags, loading and so on. We need to know our scopes can be trusted so all this info has been very helpful to us as I'm sure it has been to others. Troy
 
rifleman3 said:
Well gentleman I have been reading the post at hand I am not going to get in a pissing Match with you guys on this subject but it is a no win situation I don't care if you agree or not PS I said again you guys are pissing up a rope an are going to cause a lot of problems with the manufacturers that you are posting about.
Click to expand...
NO. I 'd say the scope manufacturers are causing US a lot of problems due to shifting POA. Problems like loosing matches for which we have invested much more money than just the cost of the scope. If they claim their product holds zero......it better be 0.000 not +/- . The scopes are named Benchrest Competition Scopes. In Benchrest competition Matches are won and lost by 0.002" aggregate differential.
 
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