Reloading Berger 80.5 grain full bore .223

[jlow]

This will be for a Tikka T3x .223 Varmint. The gun has a light varmint profile 1:8 23.75” long barrel. I’ve checked the throat and this allows maximum BTO length of 1.951” and COAL of 2.409" so starting load will be 10 thousands off. Will be using Lapua brass, Wolf SRM primers, and Varget. QL says there is an accuracy node at 23.7 grains with MV of around 2,680 fps. Anyone with firsthand experience reloading this bullet?

 

[liseo]

In my custom Borden rifle, this bullets dont group as well as my Berger 73 BT. I tried 2 differents barrels, one a 1/8 krieger and one 1/7,7 Bartlein. Best I can do is 0,7 to 0.5 MOA 5 shots groups.

With Berger 73, 1/4 MOA groups are common.

 

[Jdne5b]

Worked up a load for a friend with Varget, 24.5gr got him into the 2800s in a 28 inch tube and shot really well. We shot it .020 off. Don't remember the OAL though. Pretty long chamber.

 

[jlow]

Thanks guys. This bullet I am guessing is a bit like the 200 Berger Hybrid which means the best groups are not at the “barrel time” nodes but closer to max but before the next node which is at max or higher. The powder weight of 24.5 grain is exactly the max charge I am going to try. Good to hear that it might be worthwhile to go higher.

 

[Ned Ludd]

With your setup, I think you should be able to hit Node 4 (~1.090 ms for a 23.75" barrel). However, I would suggest using Hodgdon 322 instead of Varget for a couple reasons. First, H322 has very small kernels compared to Varget, which are easier to measure precisely and consistently for a small case like the .223 Rem. Second, Varget is going to be fairly slow in your setup, especially with the relatively short barrel. A slightly faster powder like H322 will help get that 80.5 gr bullet moving in the shorter pipe.

Some time ago, I worked up a load for a .223 Rem F-TR bolt rifle with a 26" barrel. It was one of the first loads I ever worked up, so I did it without the aid of QL, using ladder and OCW testing. This load was a bit unique, because that particular rifle has "zero" freebore. Because of that and the relatively short barrel, I went with H322. I only found out much later that the optimized load I came up with was, in fact, on OBT Node 4. I ended up using 22.5 gr H322, Lapua brass, Fed 205 primer. I found out the hard way that when the bearing surface/ogive transition is slightly below the neck, if you don't use a comparator insert with a smaller hole like Hornady's, you're effectively just measuring case length for a loaded rounds. In any event, I got everything worked out and have shot this load for several years in MR F-TR matches with very good results, particularly at 300 yd.

With the 26" barrel, I am getting about 2860 fps. Predicted pressure is running in the 56-57K psi range, but I have not had any issues with brass life as yet. However, I worked up about 400 pieces for this rifle and am only on the ~5th firing at this point. I have been very pleased with the performance of the H322 in this application. You have quite a bit more freebore than I do (zero versus an estimated .075" based on your COAL measurement above) and can seat the 80.5s longer, which should lower your relative pressure a bit.

QL parameters: barrel = 26.0", brass length = 1.750", bullet OAL = 1.082", case volume = 30.59 gr, temp = 70 degrees F, COAL = 2.330" (CBTO = 1.851", ~ .018" off the lands). Output below:

 

[swadiver]

In my custom Borden rifle, this bullets dont group as well as my Berger 73 BT. I tried 2 differents barrels, one a 1/8 krieger and one 1/7,7 Bartlein. Best I can do is 0,7 to 0.5 MOA 5 shots groups.

With Berger 73, 1/4 MOA groups are common.

I am working with this bullet as well in my 1 in 7.7 twist, 28" Bartlein barrel. i have got a pretty long throat on this new barrel. 2.469" C.O.A.L takes the 80.5's to the lands.

i have struggled to get the kind of consistent 5 shot groups i get with the 73 Bergers as well. the 73's shoot in the .1's, .2's, and .3's. the 80.5's shot very good (.2's and .3's) with 8208 XBR, but velocities too low for my taste for 600 yds. RE-15 shoots pretty good at around 24.2 grs (.3's and .4's) but the ES and SD suck. i have Varget (25grs looks the most promising) shooting around .4" and the chrono numbers are respectable, but i know this bullet can group better in this rifle. i tried -.015" from the lands, but got more consistent results up on the lands.

i am going to try H4895 and AR-Comp as well. a bit frustrating, though.

 

[jlow]

With your setup, I think you should be able to hit Node 4 (~1.090 ms for a 23.75" barrel). However, I would suggest using Hodgdon 322 instead of Varget for a couple reasons. First, H322 has very small kernels compared to Varget, which are easier to measure precisely and consistently for a small case like the .223 Rem. Second, Varget is going to be fairly slow in your setup, especially with the relatively short barrel. A slightly faster powder like H322 will help get that 80.5 gr bullet moving in the shorter pipe.

Some time ago, I worked up a load for a .223 Rem F-TR bolt rifle with a 26" barrel. It was one of the first loads I ever worked up, so I did it without the aid of QL, using ladder and OCW testing. This load was a bit unique, because that particular rifle has "zero" freebore. Because of that and the relatively short barrel, I went with H322. I only found out much later that the optimized load I came up with was, in fact, on OBT Node 4. I ended up using 22.5 gr H322, Lapua brass, Fed 205 primer. I found out the hard way that when the bearing surface/ogive transition is slightly below the neck, if you don't use a comparator insert with a smaller hole like Hornady's, you're effectively just measuring case length for a loaded rounds. In any event, I got everything worked out and have shot this load for several years in MR F-TR matches with very good results, particularly at 300 yd.

With the 26" barrel, I am getting about 2860 fps. Predicted pressure is running in the 56-57K psi range, but I have not had any issues with brass life as yet. However, I worked up about 400 pieces for this rifle and am only on the ~5th firing at this point. I have been very pleased with the performance of the H322 in this application. You have quite a bit more freebore than I do (zero versus an estimated .075" based on your COAL measurement above) and can seat the 80.5s longer, which should lower your relative pressure a bit.

QL parameters: barrel = 26.0", brass length = 1.750", bullet OAL = 1.082", case volume = 30.59 gr, temp = 70 degrees F, COAL = 2.330" (CBTO = 1.851", ~ .018" off the lands). Output below:

Thanks for your input gstaylorg – very useful.

I did look at Node 4 – with my adjusted QL, node 4 at 1.09 ms required 25.4 grains of Varget with predicted MV of 2,896 fps. Pressure was 62.127 psi which is over max which is the only reason I did not go there. Perhaps the difference is in our barrel length?

Thanks for the H322 suggestion. I have not used it before. I see that it is one of Hodgdon’s “extreme rifle powders” so should be less temp sensitive. Might have to give it a try.

Generally powder weight measurement is not a problem for me since I now use the FX-120i/autotrickler combo so all that goes fast and accurate (this setup is really incredible if you have not made the jump..). However, a faster powder and MV would be appreciated.

Two drawbacks with this rifle setup is the short 23.75” barrel and the 1:8 twist, but I brought it as a trainer so not quite as critical to get absolutely optimal performance like a competition rifle. When the barrel wears out, I will likely make some changes.

Thanks for sharing that amusing story of your experience, lucky for me I do use the Hornady tool so I am set there! Going to do some more work on QL and see what I can get.

Thanks again

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thanks for your input gstaylorg – very useful.

I did look at Node 4 – with my adjusted QL, node 4 at 1.09 ms required 25.4 grains of Varget with predicted MV of 2,896 fps. Pressure was 62.127 psi which is over max which is the only reason I did not go there. Perhaps the difference is in our barrel length?

Thanks for the H322 suggestion. I have not used it before. I see that it is one of Hodgdon’s “extreme rifle powders” so should be less temp sensitive. Might have to give it a try.

Generally powder weight measurement is not a problem for me since I now use the FX-120i/autotrickler combo so all that goes fast and accurate (this setup is really incredible if you have not made the jump..). However, a faster powder and MV would be appreciated.

Two drawbacks with this rifle setup is the short 23.75” barrel and the 1:8 twist, but I brought it as a trainer so not quite as critical to get absolutely optimal performance like a competition rifle. When the barrel wears out, I will likely make some changes.

Thanks for sharing that amusing story of your experience, lucky for me I do use the Hornady tool so I am set there! Going to do some more work on QL and see what I can get.

Thanks again

You're right about the barrel length, I should've checked that the first time. Your 23.75 is a tic short and to hit Node 4 with that barrel and H322 would require about 23.4 gr and run at almost 61K psi. That's a very stout load and brass life would not be great, maybe only one or two firings. In my hands with the 90 VLDs and a 30" barrel (Lapua brass), when the QL predicted pressure gets up to about 58K psi, brass life goes south very quickly. If you use some other brand of brass with greater case volume than Lapua it would help, similar to having a longer freebore, but I suspect it still wouldn't be enough to get the pressure down to the 55-56K psi range. I ran my H322 load file with a 23.7" barrel length and 2.400" COAL values and got the following prediction for Node 4:

 

[jlow]

No sweat and big thanks regardless. I knew up front that there was a downside to the Tikka but since it was purchased as a trainer, I felt that it was a reasonable option. I think even being stuck in Node 5 at 2,700 fps would still be OK for me. I really wanted a bolt gun for a trainer something similar to my F-Class gun. Will see how she does.

 

[Ned Ludd]

That was the exact same reason I had that particular 26" barreled rifle built, as an F-TR trainer. That rifle also happens to shoot FGMM 77s commercial ammo extremely well, with an MV of about 2740 fps. Even at about the same velocity, I'd expect the 80.5s to behave far better in the wind than the 77s.

 

[jlow]

Yes, a 26” or 30” Bartlein 1:7 with a reasonably long throat would be my choice on the next go around. The down side is the .223 barrels last a long time so that might be wishful thinking! The 80.5 BC would certainly help my cause with the present barrel. Of course since this is suppose to be a trainer, maybe I should just shoot the lower BC stuff! Just kidding.

Interesting that the FPGMM shoots well in your gun. Although this stuff shoots decent in my .308, I have never had much luck with the stuff in my .223 gas guns, perhaps they would do better in this bolt gun.

 

[CharlieNC]

In my 26" I'm running a stout load of CFE223 to get approx 3000fps without pressure problems. Its shot very well in Ftr. We built same rifle for a friend and it handled 1000yd vertical consistently. Hope the primer pockets hold up!

 

[jlow]

In my 26" I'm running a stout load of CFE223 to get approx 3000fps without pressure problems. Its shot very well in Ftr. We built same rifle for a friend and it handled 1000yd vertical consistently. Hope the primer pockets hold up!

That sounds pretty sweet for a competition gun!

Yes, for Node 4 that gstaylorg initially suggested, it looks like QL says I could reach 2,933 fps, that is of course with Varget and a shorter 23.75” barrel. But it was over max and it probably does not make too much sense to try to push it for a trainer since a bit more wind sensitivity is not necessarily a bad thing. Of course longer lasting primer pockets would be very nice!

 

[CharlieNC]

For a trainer the 75Amax has a nice compromise for cost, BC, and velocity. On steel it is consistent out to 900yd; the %hits falls off quite a bit at 1000yd where it is running out of steam. Pushing it at 3000fps in a 22" using RL15, and it would probably go a bit faster with the CFE223 as well.

 

[swadiver]

tried the 80.5's with H4895 yesterday @ 100 yds. around 23.5 grs looked very promising with very good ES & SD's

 

[jlow]

tried the 80.5's with H4895 yesterday @ 100 yds. around 23.5 grs looked very promising with very good ES & SD's

Can you please tell me what your barrel length is and what MV and SDEV you were getting?

 

[swadiver]

28" Bartlein, 1 in 7.7 twist on a Savage 10 action. only 5 shots, but the ES was 17 fps and the SD was 6 fps. going out Tuesday to explore more around the 23.5 gr area. it still had some vertical in it. at 24 grs, the group opened up and the ES and SD jumped up considerably

 

[Dino67]

I'm running this projectile in a Tikka Varmint. I use ADI (Aussie made) brass. Comparable with Lapua. 25gr Varget (AR2208 in Australia). CCI 450 primers. Nil pressure issues and just over 2900fps. A mate runs the exact same charge weight however is using 80gr VLD's in a factory Tikka varmint and Lapua brass. His barrel has over 4000 rounds through it, most used in highpower and rapid fire matches. Rifle has been used out to 900 yards in comps with success. His rifle still groups under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. My load shoots the same. Target attached is his 10 shots at 300 yards in a comp with QMRC club at Belmont range in QLD, Australia. 2 sec snap exposures. Belly on the ground shooting in a tactical style comp, no fancy front rests or rear bags. Tricky switching winds around on this day.

 

[fotohunt]

I was shooting them in a standard .223 Remington and was load them to 2.495" with upwards of 24.5 gr of Ramshot Tac. The gun shot beautifully at 2870. Now some 5,000 rounds later it's a little tired. I am putting a new barrel on with a longer throat for the 80.5's Try some TAC with CCI 41's. you won't be disappointed.

 

[jlow]

I was shooting them in a standard .223 Remington and was load them to 2.495" with upwards of 24.5 gr of Ramshot Tac. The gun shot beautifully at 2870. Now some 5,000 rounds later it's a little tired. I am putting a new barrel on with a longer throat for the 80.5's Try some TAC with CCI 41's. you won't be disappointed.

I actually have shot quite a bit of TAC in my gas guns and it does well. The only thing that keeps me from using it is that it is pretty temperature sensitive.