Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?

[Ned Ludd]

The overwhelming majority of responders in this thread indicated that shooters incapable of pit duty for physical reasons should be accommodated whenever reasonably possible. I think the "tone" of most participants here has been very supportive/inclusive toward shooters that may not be physically able to pull pit duty. In fact, much more supportive than I would have initially guessed. You came in making with your extreme/worst-case scenario statement about banning handicapped shooters from matches, which is 100% opposite from what is clearly in the minds of the majority of responders. When called out about your statements, you admitted that you don't even shoot in F-Class or other NRA-sanctioned matches because they have "too many rules". What kind of response did you expect? Your absence from this discussion will go unnoticed.

 

[500Stroker]

The overwhelming majority of responders in this thread indicated that shooters incapable of pit duty for physical reasons should be accommodated whenever reasonably possible. I think the "tone" of most participants here has been very supportive/inclusive toward shooters that may not be physically able to pull pit duty. In fact, much more supportive than I would have initially guessed. You came in making with your extreme/worst-case scenario statement about banning handicapped shooters from matches, which is 100% opposite from what is clearly in the minds of the majority of responders. When called out about your statements, you admitted that you don't even shoot in F-Class or other NRA-sanctioned matches because they have "too many rules". What kind of response did you expect? Your absence from this discussion will go unnoticed.

You will notice that I deleted my last reply as I felt compelled to respond to your comeback.
First, I in jest said I dont shoot NRA matches because of the rules. Fact is there are no NRA matches in my area. In past, in a different state I did shoot alot of NRA matches, never had a problem with the rules.
Second, all I did was to state my honest opinion that is my right, just like you have yours. If you dont like my opinion I respect that, but that will not make me change mine.
Third, I am physically unable to pull targets, I did not mind doing it when I was able, it was part of the game to me, I used it to collect information.
Forth, after what I leaned here I very well doubt I will shoot at any pull target ranges. I dont want anyone to think that I have an advantage because I cant pull targets. You see I shoot to have fun and I perhaps I'll just continue my efforts on on other ranges.
Good luck and Good bye.

 

[memilanuk]

It's up to you, of course, but FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen anyone turned away because they couldn't pull targets. At smaller club (or even state) matches where they just don't have a reserve of hired target pullers to draw upon, the onus usually falls on the shooter to bring their own (target puller) if they want/need one. At bigger (regional/national) championships where the facility couldn't find enough pullers for the number of people who legitimately *needed* them, much less the ones who just 'wanted' a paid puller... I know I (and others) usually end up pulling both my own target *and* the one 'next door' (might ask them to at least paste the hole/move the spotter). It's not ideal, but it keeps everyone in the game.

The solution might be to bring a kid (grand kid, neighbor kid, someone from a local 4H or Jr. Smallbore group, anyone that enjoys guns and wants to make a few bucks). If that's not an option for you, then yes, you might have to pick-n-choose where you shoot. Best of luck to you either way.

 

[Ned Ludd]

500Stroker - I'm not the Match Director for F-Clas at my local range, but if I have anything to say about it, you or anyone in your position in your position will be accommodated to shoot in matches if it's at all possible to do so.

 

[SF-Guy]

I'm wondering about how F-class competitors feel about hiring people to pull targets for them.

The PGA requires golfers (and spectators alike) to be fit enough to walk the course without use of a golf cart. Should there be a similar rule for pulling targets; i.e. if you shoot you also must pull?

I think pulling targets is an integral part of an F-class match just as shooting from the prone position is. Frankly, as a fat, old-guy I'd rather shoot F-class from a bench without having to pull targets, but I accept that shooting prone and pulling targets is part of the game and I happen to think that it should be.

Should people who can afford to hire target pullers be permitted to do so? Do you think that the shooter who stays on the firing line sitting in front of a fan while he studies wind shifts has an advantage over the competitor down at the pits sweating like a weight lifter in an out-of-control sauna?

If you are in the group who thinks that paying a target puller is OK, would you also feel comfortable if a fellow competitor also hired a skilled marksman to fire his rifle for him? Just kidding about that last part, but you get the point.

Comments?

Pulling targets is just a part of the deal. Ideally everyone should pull for as many as they had shots to be fair. Paid pullers are fine, so are volunteer family members etc, but, the shooter is still responsible for accuracy and good service. At some matches if your puller walks off and you don't step in and pull they will disqualify you. That's fair.
For me, I like it because of the interaction with other shooters and the relaxing atmosphere. It is the perfect place to enjoy a can of sardines and get your head in the game.

I think military guys just naturally accept it as a decent break

 

[jkl]

I believe at the Berger if you bring a puller they will not pull your target they just get tossed in to the puller pool.

John

 

[dwcon]

I have pulled targets when able a few months ago i had a pace maker put in the guys i shoot with could not have been better and it allowed me to continue to shoot . That has was a big deal to me and i would like to thank them all. I just came home from my second heart surgery and hope to come back soon Thanks again to a great bunch of guys . Dannie Wake

 

[cognac jack]

Hi everyone, I normally do not post, but due to this topic, I feel that I will but my 2 cents in. I am fairly new to this sport only having shot 4 years and have pulled targets for 3 of them. I have enjoyed being in the pits and having time to talk to new friends. This last year has been difficult due to some medical and physical problems. I shot at the 2016 Berger and if it wasn't for some help from other shooters and a puller I would never have made it through the match. I do not think a puller helps or hinders you shooting ability, and if a person wants a puller and they are available it should be his decision to have one. As for me it is going to be hard to shoot if there are no pullers, and I would hate to give up the sport for that reason.
I would like to thank all the people that have helped me getting to the line, on the line and pulling for me. Hopefully I will continue to shoot and see you all at shoots in the future.

John Farraggio

 

[savagedasher]

My feeling is if it is in the rules that you must pull targets . Then you must . If you don't Then it is un fair.
Also I don't know if the ADA provision wouldn't be violated . And that would serious
If it was pushed .
The best rueling would be you have a choice .
Larry

 

[ScottyB]

Y'all should just have paid markers all the time like we do! And shoot in pairs!

 

[memilanuk]

Y'all should just have paid markers all the time like we do! And shoot in pairs!

Remind me, Scotty... what is your average local club match entry fee?

Ours have been ~$20 per day for as long as I've been shooting... and people squeal like a stuck hog if you suggest raising them - threatening boycotts of events, etc.

One can only imagine what kind of furball would ensue if shooters were *required* to pay for pullers as well - which typically cost more than the match entry fee, even divided amongst the shooters. And that's if - *IF* - you can find people willing to pull targets, even for $$$.

Bear in mind, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I just don't see the shooter community here going for it.

 

[savagedasher]

Remind me, Scotty... what is your average local club match entry fee?

Ours have been ~$20 per day for as long as I've been shooting... and people squeal like a stuck hog if you suggest raising them - threatening boycotts of events, etc.

One can only imagine what kind of furball would ensue if shooters were *required* to pay for pullers as well - which typically cost more than the match entry fee, even divided amongst the shooters. And that's if - *IF* - you can find people willing to pull targets, even for $$$.

Bear in mind, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I just don't see the shooter community here going for it.

Sound like you have played the game. The shooters don't understand it is all about numbers . Like I said before I don't shoot F class. My reason is I can't lay down is one and I couldn't pull targets.
But if I could pay a puller and shoot from a bench I would do in a heartbeat .
Seems to me that arrangement should be offered . It could generate enough shooters to where it could be welcome option . Larry

 

[dmoran]

Sound like you have played the game. The shooters don't understand it is all about numbers . Like I said before I don't shoot F class. My reason is I can't lay down is one and I couldn't pull targets.
But if I could pay a puller and shoot from a bench I would do in a heartbeat .
Seems to me that arrangement should be offered . It could generate enough shooters to where it could be welcome option . Larry

Larry -
There are handicap/medical provisional rules in F-Class that allow people to shoot from a bench. Not sure of the criteria for someone to qualify, but worth looking into if your serious about wanting to participate.
Maybe @ShootDots will chime in, he knows more on it....
Donovan

 

[Dgd6mm]

At Camp Blanding we are no using Electronic targets. We also have two shooters that are wheelchair bound and shoot from benches that they bring. I have shot with one of them that has shot on the ground seven times, though I think it is a little too uncomfortable for him. We pulled their targets when we were pulling.

 

[savagedasher]

At Camp Blanding we are no using Electronic targets. We also have two shooters that are wheelchair bound and shoot from benches that they bring. I have shot with one of them that has shot on the ground seven times, though I think it is a little too uncomfortable for him. We pulled their targets when we were pulling.

That is what I was talking about I wouldn't expect any less from you . Larry

 

[ngb1787]

As a general rule I do not pull pit duty, have done it for years but prefer not to anymore. Not sure if it is an advantage or not. Enjoying the electronics now and not having to worry about rushing back and forth. Enjoying great social time without pit duty. I look at shooting as much as being social as much as shooting. Last i looked we do not get paid for shooting so i like it to be as relaxing as possible.

 

[Bob Sebold]

I think the NRA is trying to promote shooting, not discourage it. We are building some more wooden benches at Lodi this winter to accommodate the people that need them. I would do anything possible to help another shooter compete. I have had paid pullers in the past. I used to tell Karin if one of the pullers is out during a relay, that I would take them just to make sure they get paid for the whole day. Turns out, if they are good pullers it makes for a good day. This game is expensive so I doubt 20 bucks a day is going to break you. If it is, don't get a puller. By all means pull. I usually end up pulling and don't mind, but I also know a lot shooters that cannot and will not pull. They just don't show up for the match. I hate it when that happens.

I also know some shooters with disabilities that would have to quit. If these old farts can beat me, that only means I need to step up my game. I am glad to be able to shoot with them and I will help them any way I can. Even though I know, the only reason Larry Bart, or Jim Murphy, or Earl, EVER beat me is because they had a puller I did not! That is why I ALWAYS beat Danny Biggs, he always pulls too. Oh, Maybe not! forgot about a few matches lately.

Canada does have a good idea. Get a bunch of motivated cute young girls to pull the targets for everybody! If we would just end welfare in this country there would be a lot of liberals looking to make a buck. Of course they would have to work for it. Not sure that would work either.

 

[ScottyB]

Canada does have a good idea. Get a bunch of motivated cute young girls to pull the targets for everybody!

I'll let the girls know you said "hi" Bob! They do a phenomenal job, and we are certainly very lucky to have them.

 

[JarheadAZ]

OK, I've been out of the F Class competition for about a dozen years now, the last time I fired F Open was at Bodines, however long ago it was that they closed the course to high-power shooters. I'm trying to crawl my way back into it shooting the MR event (three 22rd matches, 600yd) at the SW LR Nationals this coming February at Ben Avery in Mesa. I am a Grand Senior, and I'm wanting to intro my Granddaughter 20y/o this year to a formal match environment at the National level. My ticker went Kaput in 2004, and things are not as good as that 12 years later. Bear in mind that I still shot and still pulled for a couple of years after the MI.

I have always pulled butts. I love the camaraderie back behind the berm. But I also have always taken pride in the quality of pit service I rendered, and honest to ever'body, I'm worried I may not be up to that this time around. VA calls me 100%, but I still push my limits.

I'm one of those guys who stayed away for the past decade because he didn't feel he was giving fair for fair back of the berm.

I think I need advice about whether or not to ask Michelle for pit assistance. I can pay whatever the service costs. I'm embarrassed even asking the question.

Greg Langelius

 

[savagedasher]

OK, I've been out of the F Class competition for about a dozen years now, the last time I fired F Open was at Bodines, however long ago it was that they closed the course to high-power shooters. I'm trying to crawl my way back into it shooting the MR event (three 22rd matches, 600yd) at the SW LR Nationals this coming February at Ben Avery in Mesa. I am a Grand Senior, and I'm wanting to intro my Granddaughter 20y/o this year to a formal match environment at the National level. My ticker went Kaput in 2004, and things are not as good as that 12 years later. Bear in mind that I still shot and still pulled for a couple of years after the MI.

I have always pulled butts. I love the camaraderie back behind the berm. But I also have always taken pride in the quality of pit service I rendered, and honest to ever'body, I'm worried I may not be up to that this time around. VA calls me 100%, but I still push my limits.

I think I need advice about whether or not to ask Michelle for pit assistance. I can pay whatever the service costs. I'm embarrassed even asking the question.

Greg Langelius

I would say go for it it better then not shooting . Larry