CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
RWS makes 45 ACP pistol brass that is SP and it's really good stuff.
6.5 creedmoor lapua brass
- Thread starter vmaxpro
- Start date
Just discovered that little item for myself. Had to order a pack of the smaller .057 pins from Brownells.
I did a little looking around and what I was thinking about the grendel was AA produced small primer brass and ammo, but when Wolf began making it, they had a large rifle primer. I have both hornady and lapua grendel brass, and I have gotten the decapper stuck in the Lapua. But I have diverted this thread enough, so I will just say congrats to all the creedmore shooters out there on getting some really good brass
This is the only issue to me. I know now but learned the hard way when I converted my Lapua Palmas to creedmoor! Punched out 5 of them before I caught on.
Make them small primer please and let the die hard large primer guys buy noslers or norma.
fwiw,
I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf, however, I had Dave Tooley and Dwight Scott both try to interest me either building a 6.5 CM(Dave) or at least a barrel in .260 Remington(Mr. Scott) along with my 47. Both were trying to recommend either cartridge dues to the Large Rifle Primer Cartridge OR at least chamber a 6.5mm LRP Cartridge in an identical contour barrel... I don't like speaking on anyone's behalf and and will not do so here for fear of misquoting either those gentlemen. That being said when Dave Tooley tells me something I don't figure he is doing so to hear himself talk. Mr. Scott, another true Gentleman, did not give me any reasoning, however, he would not have pushed me in that direction if there were not an issue.. I will say this: There has not been a more plebeian match cartridge in recent memory than the 6.5 CM and frankly I am at a loss as to why Lapua's American Contingent would want to reengineer a KNOWN KNOWN to quote Donald Rumsfeld. As long as you have access to H4350, decent dies, and a good scale, you should be able to make it shoot. If you want more speed? Go to a 6.5x284 Lapua. .264 Winchester Magnum Brass is available now both from Winchester(once again) and from Nosler(Norma). Why we have to reengineer a KNOWN performer is beyond me... You all say SHAME on the new loader if he is not up to speed on all of this. I suppose I might concur as consensus amongst that loading manuals and online sources are my first stops with new chamberings. That said keep this mind. We cannot afford to throw the FIRST one of us off the sleigh as the wolves will NEVER be satiated. If the 6.5 Creedmoor has brought NEW BLOOD into medium to medium long range shooting fraternity, and IT HAS, and THAT should be considered a God Send.
I look around me and see a lot of my(much) older friends who shot, for blood first and later in competition, ARE GONE. They've greyed out and passed away... I try to avoid playing rifle snob to newbies because they ARE the new blood that will keep us afloat. If you don't think we need new blood you are not paying attention. Further, even if someone shoots only once or twice, make certain they enjoy the experience SAFELY of course. It is that type of experience that will tell the tale through the rest of their, and preferably her, lives and serve to counter the institutional ignorance that is pervasive.
What has come out of the Hornady Box Ammunition I think of what I have seen shot through my customers AI AX and AX MC Rifles and to put it mildly it has blown my mind for a LARGE FACTORY producing what is in most instances rivals boutique ammunition...
While I could EASILY bring any of these folks into a $2500 plus reloading setup, before books, a laptop, OR a custom bench, I don't think that is what the Creedmoor is about... It is a stepping back to the .222 Remington and the .308 Winchester were the average guy, with enough studying and/or observation could produce damned accurate hand loads. Further it is about making a round that is ballistically efficient shoot and do so in a way that should not intimidate anyone in a rifle of even modest weight.
I see turning this into a FREAK cartridge as a STEP BACKWARD for the sport as a whole. That said specialization and a few more FPS seems to be the order of the day NO MATTER HOW IRRELEVANT the truly are... Full steam ahead.
Regards, Matt.
I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf, however, I had Dave Tooley and Dwight Scott both try to interest me either building a 6.5 CM(Dave) or at least a barrel in .260 Remington(Mr. Scott) along with my 47. Both were trying to recommend either cartridge dues to the Large Rifle Primer Cartridge OR at least chamber a 6.5mm LRP Cartridge in an identical contour barrel... I don't like speaking on anyone's behalf and and will not do so here for fear of misquoting either those gentlemen. That being said when Dave Tooley tells me something I don't figure he is doing so to hear himself talk. Mr. Scott, another true Gentleman, did not give me any reasoning, however, he would not have pushed me in that direction if there were not an issue.. I will say this: There has not been a more plebeian match cartridge in recent memory than the 6.5 CM and frankly I am at a loss as to why Lapua's American Contingent would want to reengineer a KNOWN KNOWN to quote Donald Rumsfeld. As long as you have access to H4350, decent dies, and a good scale, you should be able to make it shoot. If you want more speed? Go to a 6.5x284 Lapua. .264 Winchester Magnum Brass is available now both from Winchester(once again) and from Nosler(Norma). Why we have to reengineer a KNOWN performer is beyond me... You all say SHAME on the new loader if he is not up to speed on all of this. I suppose I might concur as consensus amongst that loading manuals and online sources are my first stops with new chamberings. That said keep this mind. We cannot afford to throw the FIRST one of us off the sleigh as the wolves will NEVER be satiated. If the 6.5 Creedmoor has brought NEW BLOOD into medium to medium long range shooting fraternity, and IT HAS, and THAT should be considered a God Send.
I look around me and see a lot of my(much) older friends who shot, for blood first and later in competition, ARE GONE. They've greyed out and passed away... I try to avoid playing rifle snob to newbies because they ARE the new blood that will keep us afloat. If you don't think we need new blood you are not paying attention. Further, even if someone shoots only once or twice, make certain they enjoy the experience SAFELY of course. It is that type of experience that will tell the tale through the rest of their, and preferably her, lives and serve to counter the institutional ignorance that is pervasive.
What has come out of the Hornady Box Ammunition I think of what I have seen shot through my customers AI AX and AX MC Rifles and to put it mildly it has blown my mind for a LARGE FACTORY producing what is in most instances rivals boutique ammunition...
While I could EASILY bring any of these folks into a $2500 plus reloading setup, before books, a laptop, OR a custom bench, I don't think that is what the Creedmoor is about... It is a stepping back to the .222 Remington and the .308 Winchester were the average guy, with enough studying and/or observation could produce damned accurate hand loads. Further it is about making a round that is ballistically efficient shoot and do so in a way that should not intimidate anyone in a rifle of even modest weight.
I see turning this into a FREAK cartridge as a STEP BACKWARD for the sport as a whole. That said specialization and a few more FPS seems to be the order of the day NO MATTER HOW IRRELEVANT the truly are... Full steam ahead.
Regards, Matt.
Last edited:
Both were trying to recommend either cartridge dues to the Large Rifle Primer Cartridge OR at least chamber a 6.5mm LRP Cartridge in an identical contour barrel... [Matt in Virginia]
That's interesting. I regularly raise this issue with would-be 6.5X47L users in the light of my own first disastrous go with this cartridge and SRP 'blanking'. This was a 308 Win FN Special Police Rifle A1/A4 rebarrelled to the X47L in the early days of the new wonder cartridge. With the Winchester M70 bolt and generous firing pin clearance (I presume deliberate given its FBI and other LEA tactical customer base), primers blanked at around 1gn above Viht's very mild starting loads. A quick run-in with a 260 Rem reamer solved the issue and the rifle has been a great performer ever since for the use I give it. I keep meeting or hearing of people here in the UK who want 6.5X47L Accuracy Internationals, but who then find they have to either severely limit their loads or find a gunsmith who will turn the firing pin down and bush the bolt-face. (That's not nearly as easy an exercise in the UK and much more expensive as there is nobody here set up like Gre-Tan to do it on a near production line basis with jigs all made up.)
One thing that surprised me in researching the common 6.5s for a magazine feature is that nobody other than a couple of Italian companies (Sabatti FIAS and Victrix) makes a factory out of the box listed 6.5X47L - and the Victrix rifles are essentially factory made custom jobs done on CNC machines including barrel threading and chambering - superb performers but as expensive as many custom rifles. Like the 6BR and other high-pressure small primer numbers, this cartridge is ignored ... or more likely deliberately steered well clear of .... by 99% of rifle manufacturers and I imagine the primer blanking issue is at least partly behind this.
As you say, the Creedmoor is an everyman's cartridge (and everywoman's and child's too given it slight recoil and good manners) with an inrush of cheap and remarkably capable firearms to use it in. (In the USA anyway - one or two European manufacturers might consider adopting it around 2030 given past performance.) For this market, the small primer / small flash-hole set-up would be a mistake.
As Grimstod points out every now and then though, Lapua is a relatively small company with at least some of its brass range targeted on niche markets, the still growing custom rifle building / buying and increasingly sophisticated handloading shooter, and may reckon there is an opportunity here.
Personally, I'd prefer any new Creedmoor brass to remain as per the original spec, and let the 'enthusiast' continue to reform 308 Win Palma brass if he or she wants a super-strong small primer case. The other worry I have is that the Creedmoor could risk being turned into the 6.5X47L 'Improved' and just as many '47L shooters are determined to make their little cartridge outperform its larger 260 and Creedmoor competitors, we get a group of Creedmoor users who'll want to run proof-load pressures to make the cartridge outperform the 6.5X55AI and similar, abusing the tough Lapua small primer case-head. With this being a mass market 'cooking number', that could see loads quoted on forums and in clubhouses which lead the inexperienced or careless user up all sorts of dangerous paths when 'Super SRP Creedmoor' loads are transferred willy-nilly to tired old Hornady LRP brass.
That's interesting. I regularly raise this issue with would-be 6.5X47L users in the light of my own first disastrous go with this cartridge and SRP 'blanking'. This was a 308 Win FN Special Police Rifle A1/A4 rebarrelled to the X47L in the early days of the new wonder cartridge. With the Winchester M70 bolt and generous firing pin clearance (I presume deliberate given its FBI and other LEA tactical customer base), primers blanked at around 1gn above Viht's very mild starting loads. A quick run-in with a 260 Rem reamer solved the issue and the rifle has been a great performer ever since for the use I give it. I keep meeting or hearing of people here in the UK who want 6.5X47L Accuracy Internationals, but who then find they have to either severely limit their loads or find a gunsmith who will turn the firing pin down and bush the bolt-face. (That's not nearly as easy an exercise in the UK and much more expensive as there is nobody here set up like Gre-Tan to do it on a near production line basis with jigs all made up.)
One thing that surprised me in researching the common 6.5s for a magazine feature is that nobody other than a couple of Italian companies (Sabatti FIAS and Victrix) makes a factory out of the box listed 6.5X47L - and the Victrix rifles are essentially factory made custom jobs done on CNC machines including barrel threading and chambering - superb performers but as expensive as many custom rifles. Like the 6BR and other high-pressure small primer numbers, this cartridge is ignored ... or more likely deliberately steered well clear of .... by 99% of rifle manufacturers and I imagine the primer blanking issue is at least partly behind this.
As you say, the Creedmoor is an everyman's cartridge (and everywoman's and child's too given it slight recoil and good manners) with an inrush of cheap and remarkably capable firearms to use it in. (In the USA anyway - one or two European manufacturers might consider adopting it around 2030 given past performance.) For this market, the small primer / small flash-hole set-up would be a mistake.
As Grimstod points out every now and then though, Lapua is a relatively small company with at least some of its brass range targeted on niche markets, the still growing custom rifle building / buying and increasingly sophisticated handloading shooter, and may reckon there is an opportunity here.
Personally, I'd prefer any new Creedmoor brass to remain as per the original spec, and let the 'enthusiast' continue to reform 308 Win Palma brass if he or she wants a super-strong small primer case. The other worry I have is that the Creedmoor could risk being turned into the 6.5X47L 'Improved' and just as many '47L shooters are determined to make their little cartridge outperform its larger 260 and Creedmoor competitors, we get a group of Creedmoor users who'll want to run proof-load pressures to make the cartridge outperform the 6.5X55AI and similar, abusing the tough Lapua small primer case-head. With this being a mass market 'cooking number', that could see loads quoted on forums and in clubhouses which lead the inexperienced or careless user up all sorts of dangerous paths when 'Super SRP Creedmoor' loads are transferred willy-nilly to tired old Hornady LRP brass.
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Yes but there SAMMI PSI specks are totally diferent. The 47 is higher and can thus reach same performance with less case fill. Some call this greater efficiency but its not. Its just a hotter cartridge and because its a small primer it can handle it for 25+ reloads while the CM can barely do 10 at best when loaded to tye same PSI.
If this new brass comes in small primer pocket configuration, will your argument stand up?
What velocity are you pushing your 140+- gr bullets at? (if you don't mind sharing). In Hornady Creed brass my primer pockets were noticeably looser after the 4th firing at 2750 fps loads in 140gr ELDM's but still definitely usable. My Lapua large primer 6.5 Creed brass I have tested loads up to 2820's fps with 142gr bullets without change in primer seating feel after the first load (very slight reduction in seating feel on the second load but no change after that and now on 6th load). I am in the process of experimenting with the 6.5 Creed 'Palma' converts and the pockets have no perceptible difference in feel after 2 loads that pushed a 141gr bullet at 2770's. So far I think the SRP will be the cat's arse. I think your statement concerning Creedmoor brass is accurate when considering Hornady brass (I have heard similar reports with the Nosler brass) but I think the result will likely be different with Lapua brass, particularly the 'Palma' brass.
Grimstod ultimate fanboy of x47, I'd have better luck convincing my wife her butt is too big
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Nope.
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Shooting 144gr Lapua FMJ at 2850 26" barrel and on the fifth firing. Still good and tight pockets with the 47 brass. Also have my favorite and most used load with a 123gr Amax running at 3150 at one point, have backed it down to 2980 now though cause the node was a little better.
I am hoping to find a higher V accuracy node with the Palma Creed brass but currently i have a 24" tube. I am waiting on a new 26" Bartlein barrel to be chambered by Dixon before I FF the majority of the new small primer converts...then I will push it up and see how the rifle likes it. Don't say it....why not just start with a 6.5 x 47L
...but I am enjoying the journey.
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Hay i love wildcatting to. Have three of them now. It's addictingI am hoping to find a higher V accuracy node with the Palma Creed brass but currently i have a 24" tube. I am waiting on a new 26" Bartlein barrel to be chambered by Dixon before I FF the majority of the new small primer converts...then I will push it up and see how the rifle likes it. Don't say it....why not just start with a 6.5 x 47L
I am looking forward to Lapua 6.5CM brass. My Hornady 6.5CM brass has been hit and miss. My Lapua 6.5X47L brass has been excellent as all of my Lapua brass has been.
I've got 3 firings on my Lapua Palma 6.5 Creedmoor converts. I'm going to anneal them before loading a 4th time then test charge weight again since I'm starting a new 8# lot of h4350. Honestly I'm hoping it stays the same I'm very happy with the 41.5 grains and a 142 smk with a cci 450 primer that are working very well for me, don't have any chrono numbers but according to my come ups out to 1000 and the strelok app I should be around 2750 - 2780 and my primer pockets have not loosened noticeably at all. I've got another box of win Palma's coming to convert to creedmoor.
I'm not waiting on Lapua for the small primer brass but will definitely be a buyer when it becomes available. I don't understand the mentality of people wanting Lapua not offering the the creedmoor brass in small primer when there is other good large primer brass available now.
I'm not waiting on Lapua for the small primer brass but will definitely be a buyer when it becomes available. I don't understand the mentality of people wanting Lapua not offering the the creedmoor brass in small primer when there is other good large primer brass available now.
rap36case
Working up loads for new Shilen 308win
I am going to try some Nosler brass from Sinclair:
Nosler takes a few extra steps with their brass to make it a premium component for the handloader. The brass is first weigh-sorted to within + or - 0.5 grains, then the flash holes are deburred. Nosler completes the case prep with neck sizing and chamfering the inside and outside of the case mouth. All Nosler unprimed brass bears the Nosler headstamp. Sold in boxes of 50 unless stated otherwise.
They may be better than anything Lapua would come up with for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Nosler takes a few extra steps with their brass to make it a premium component for the handloader. The brass is first weigh-sorted to within + or - 0.5 grains, then the flash holes are deburred. Nosler completes the case prep with neck sizing and chamfering the inside and outside of the case mouth. All Nosler unprimed brass bears the Nosler headstamp. Sold in boxes of 50 unless stated otherwise.
They may be better than anything Lapua would come up with for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Let me know how that Nosler brass works out for you. I can just about guarantee you it will vary way more than +or- 0.5 grains.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.