Loaded to the same PRESSURES with the same bullet, powder and same bbl length the 6.5 CM will be faster.
6.5 creedmoor lapua brass
- Thread starter vmaxpro
- Start date
Loaded to the same PRESSURES with the same bullet, powder and same bbl length the 6.5 CM will be faster.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
That question arose with 308 'Palma' brass and its small primer. Some people claimed it was SAAMI non-compliant and therefore couldn't be used in international 'Fullbore' and FTR competition as it was no longer a '.308 Winchester case' and anything loaded in it was no longer a '.308 Winchester' cartridge. ICFRA, the international governing body killed that off straightaway. I think going by (fallible) memory, that SAAMI etc don't actually specify primer and flash-hole sizes in their specs.
There are a few other cartridges around with both size of primer - 6.8mm Rem SPC is the most commonly found these days, but 7.62X39mm had some Remington made brass headstamped 'Peters' (I think) that was SR primed. I've got some old cartons of this stuff around in dark yellow colour cardboard. Primer size variation doesn't change the name - you just have to know that Hornady 6.8SPC is SR and Remington 6.8SPC is LR.
There are a few other cartridges around with both size of primer - 6.8mm Rem SPC is the most commonly found these days, but 7.62X39mm had some Remington made brass headstamped 'Peters' (I think) that was SR primed. I've got some old cartons of this stuff around in dark yellow colour cardboard. Primer size variation doesn't change the name - you just have to know that Hornady 6.8SPC is SR and Remington 6.8SPC is LR.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Fair enough, and it's true the SAAMI cartridge drawing does not include flash hole dimensions.
But let me ask two questions:
1. Would someone setting out to reload 308 Palma be well advised to refer to published 308 Win load data, and assume the internal ballistics are identical?
2. If someone bought a box of new cases marked "6.5 Creedmore" would it be unreasonable for him to expect them to use the same size primers as the "6.5 Creedmore" loaded ammo spent cases he has been previously reloading?
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If someone is not diligent enough to read the box and know he had SRP brass, then perhaps he should stick to factory loaded ammo...just saying. A reloader should be on top of his components, if not, shame on him.
I don't recall it saying small pistol primer on boxes of 45acp ammo that blindsided more than a few people.
But this new creed brass a non issue, it's an upgrade anyway you look at it.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Your comment implies the box is clearly marked WRT which primer size to use. Have you seen a box of 6.5 Creedmore so marked? Or did you have to open the package and inspect a case to determine that?
It will obviously be marked "6.5 Creedmore" but this may be the first cartridge case for which the proper name alone will not ipso facto make clear the primer size. I can't think of another example offhand, can you?
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Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks. Not being a pistol reloader, I'll have to ask: Are small pistol primer 45 ACP cases commonly sold today?
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Honestly, I can't answer that one. I do know it was more than one brand of ammo.
Brian...relax...I'm sure Lapua will make a clear designation on the box label to signify which primer is needed on their 'Creedmoor' brass. If not marked so, your concerns are valid.
LMAO, it will be, 6.5 Creedmoor +P
I've already quoted just that to you. If you buy Hornady 6.8 Rem SPC brass it's small primer; if you buy the same (with the same name on the bag or carton) made by Remington, it's large primer. IIRC, Silver State Armory made 6.8SPC brass that could be either at various times of SSA's existence.
As to your first question re 308 Palma v 308 standard LRP brass, yes you use the same loads data and get very similar results. Depending on the powder being used, the small primer 'Palma' case needs from 0.2 to 0.5gn additional powder to provide the same MV as the other type. Both have identical internal capacities, and the capacity differences you find between makes and lots of 308 Win (and other cartridges' brass) often make a greater difference to loads / pressures / MVs than that, Winchester 308 for instance using 0.5-1gn higher charges than standard (large primer) Lapua equivalents.
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SBS
Gold $$ Contributor
I understand with anything, there are outliers i.e. some 6.5CM shooters reload but they are not the majority, so the logic of not making 6.5CM Lapua brass seems logical.[/QUOTE]
Since the majority of 6.5CM shooters don't reload, I'd like to find out where all the once fired brass is for sale, since I do reload. Anyone know?
Since the majority of 6.5CM shooters don't reload, I'd like to find out where all the once fired brass is for sale, since I do reload. Anyone know?
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
I'll partially answer my own question. As best I can determine, small primer 45 ACP brass was never sold as new unfired reloading components. (Someone will please correct me if I am wrong!) The small primer 45 ACP cases have only been sold as a component of loaded value line ammo, e.g. Speer "Blazer". If that's true, the hypothetical wherein a consumer would be buying new 45 ACP cases, and would need to determine for which primer size, would never happen.
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it better not, I've already got two of them
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Sorry, responses coming in too fast and furious, I missed that. Thanks, a fair example. Caveat emptor.
Fair enough. Strictly speaking, the internal ballistics are not identical, but within the noise of, say, case capacity variation I suppose.
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IIRC, RWS .45 componet brass is SP, also some federal loaded offerings. What I can't recall is if some of the early 6.5 grendel brass had a large primer and then switched to small
What I think is a bigger issue than primer size is the flash-hole as the 'unwary' often don't realise they need a different diameter decapper pin from that normally used or is supplied with a standard sizer die.
I've often thought that Lapua should put a warning on the 'Palma brass' box label so advising purchasers. When I mention this issue to people considering trying the brass, most are unaware of this requirement. They know about the primer size and even usually to use SR Magnum or BR grades, but don't know that the standard pin is just a tad too fat for the flash-hole.
I've often thought that Lapua should put a warning on the 'Palma brass' box label so advising purchasers. When I mention this issue to people considering trying the brass, most are unaware of this requirement. They know about the primer size and even usually to use SR Magnum or BR grades, but don't know that the standard pin is just a tad too fat for the flash-hole.
My understanding is that it's all small primer (but stand ready to be proven wrong on this). However, Lapua uses the small (1.5mm / 0.059") dia, flash-hole and Hornady the more common 2.0mm (0.079") hole diameter.
Since the majority of 6.5CM shooters don't reload, I'd like to find out where all the once fired brass is for sale, since I do reload. Anyone know?[/QUOTE]
This can be a trumped up market, depending on ones view of value. Prime brass, if it is actually RAUG or Norma, is fetching a price I'm not willing to pay.
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