Nightforce Scope Problem

[lgwatson]

I have a Nightforce 5-25 ATACR F1 scope. I mounted it on a custom built 6.5-06 AI with a Stiller Predator action with the Stiller picatinny base and Nightforce rings. Until recently, I was shooting 100 yard .30", three shot groups and hitting targets and prairie dogs at 300 yards. The rig began to shoot all over the place, even off of paper. New Night force rings were installed, torqued to specs and the base was double checked. It still shot all over and off of the paper. The last three shot test group results were: first shot on, second shot was at 2 o'clock 3-4" off and the the third shot was off of paper. I sent the scope back to Nightforce and their techs reported that there is nothing wrong with the scope. He stated that when the rings are mounted, they have to be pushed forward in the slot on the base. After the last group, the gunsmith that built the rifle and I re-checked the rings and base, and they were solid as a rock.

I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

 

[284winner]

Did the spiratic shooting begin at the start of another session or during a shooting session where you WERE shooting great and suddenly it began shooting poorly ?

 

[ultraedge]

I have owned over 30 Nightforce scopes including nine ATACR's but no ffp's. I have had several rifles do what you describe. After checking base screws and action screws,which were found to be loose in several cases, the barrel became suspect. They were thoroughly cleaned with Iosso paste. If there was no improvement, a new barrel was installed and the problem was solved. None of the problem was ever traced to the Nightforce scopes. Bedding the rail to the action at the beginning will save you some headaches. Barrels will quit unexpectedly. I shot out two .338 premium cut rifled barrels last year. They only lasted a couple of months. Another of the same make is still going strong after three years of being shot at the same rate. Gary

 

[lgwatson]

Did the spiratic shooting begin at the start of another session or during a shooting session where you WERE shooting great and suddenly it began shooting poorly ?

In the last session, I only fired three rounds. The first was dead on, the second was 2 o'clock 3-4 inches off and the third was completely off of the paper. The pattern was similar when I first noticed the problem. The gunsmith and I believe that the scope is not holding zero, but the Nightforce techs think otherwise.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Simple check is to mount another scope. Have seen multiple NF scopes fail lately.

 

[lgwatson]

Did the spiratic shooting begin at the start of another session or during a shooting session where you WERE shooting great and suddenly it began shooting poorly ?

The last session, I only fired three rounds. But the pattern was similar when it first happened.

 

[lgwatson]

Simple check is to mount another scope. Have seen multiple NF scopes fail lately.

I didn't mention that the smith mounted a scope known to function properly, and when I fired a three round group, two were in the same hole and the group was approx. .40" center to center measured with calipers. The techs answer to that was that the scope used in the test was a lighter weight scope, and he still believed it had to do with mounting.

 

[lgwatson]

Simple check is to mount another scope. Have seen multiple NF scopes fail lately.

The tech also told me that they have never had a scope go that far off of POA. I am a little skeptical of that claim.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

NF does not like to admit any scope issues. You need to do more than one 3 shot group for testing. But if you swap scopes and you problem is gone then you have you answer. NF does not test scopes on a rifle or in a way that duplicates recoil.

 

[lgwatson]

NF does not like to admit any scope issues. You need to do more than one 3 shot group for testing. But if you swap scopes and you problem is gone then you have you answer. NF does not test scopes on a rifle or in a way that duplicates recoil.

They are sending the scope back to me. I will do additional testing as you suggest. I appreciate your time and helpful input.

 

[lgwatson]

I have owned over 30 Nightforce scopes including nine ATACR's but no ffp's. I have had several rifles do what you describe. After checking base screws and action screws,which were found to be loose in several cases, the barrel became suspect. They were thoroughly cleaned with Iosso paste. If there was no improvement, a new barrel was installed and the problem was solved. None of the problem was ever traced to the Nightforce scopes. Bedding the rail to the action at the beginning will save you some headaches. Barrels will quit unexpectedly. I shot out two .338 premium cut rifled barrels last year. They only lasted a couple of months. Another of the same make is still going strong after three years of being shot at the same rate. Gary

I mounted a scope known to function properly and the rifle was dead on with a tight group. The smith that built the gun scoped the barrel and found no problems. All fasteners were solid and were torqued to specs. The action and base are Stiller. The base is penned and has four screws. It is solid as a rock.

 

[FatBoy]

I had one not tracking properly about 13 years ago. Sent it in, NTF. Retested and if was still not tracking. Sent it back in again with two box tests and they sent another scope.

NF may not always get it right the first time, but they will get it right.

 

[lgwatson]

This doesn't necessarily mean that they are fibbing. It may mean their testing apparatus is not a real rifle, and can't recreate the sort of vibrations that an actual rifle might. I have only ever broke one, and it was an obvious breakage in the tracking. They didn't deny it, and had it back to me in no time.

Tom

Nightforce has a good reputation. My skepticism was for the claim that they have not had a scope go that far off, which could well be true. Mine may be the first.

 

[lgwatson]

I had one not tracking properly about 13 years ago. Sent it in, NTF. Retested and if was still not tracking. Sent it back in again with two box tests and they sent another scope.

NF may not always get it right the first time, but they will get it right.

Hope so.

 

[Mr.Knowit all]

True story no shit... I bought the first NF scope in my family and fell in love. Put it on my Steyr SSG 300 wm and shooting a 1k meters was never easier so I told my little bother and he saved and bought the exact set-up, exact one and he/I had MAJOR grouping issues-(with his NF) would not even track remotely. NXS 5.5-22 so after many, many checks I called NF and they said that they do have mistakes that happen but that they are about 1 out of 9,000 scopes!!!!! Meaning only one scope out of 9,000 is their fault and so if I thought that I had that one out of 9,000 scope group send it in to them and they would fix it. I rechecked everything one last time and had no luck so I sent it in and IT WAS THE 1 out of 9,000 scopes that is manufactured incorrectly. FML.... I will say that NF fixed it and had it back in my hands in ~ 10 days and we/my brother never had another scope problem from that one or the next 6 scopes we bought (combined) after that. They were top-notch customer service guys and they are their reputation serious.
Everybody told me it was me or that my gun needed to be bedded, etc... but when I mounted my NF on his Steyr I was punching one big ragged hole at 100 yards. NF has grown A LOT so maybe that number has changed or maybe you just got the "one out of 9,000" .....???? Good luck and you can PM me if you need to.

 

[284winner]

Even the mighty NF isn't immune to disease. May have a better immune system than most but still needs a DR every now and then.

 

[Kings X]

Gary, great that you got 30 good NF scopes.
I had 3. Two were bad. Like Alex, NF does not want to admit a scope problem. They sent one back with the same weak spring problem it went in for.
The last scope threw a round every now and then. Then in a real big match it threw rounds off the target. NF rep would not talk about all the ones failing. Scope never came home. Sold it right there.

 

[284winner]

One thing about Nightforce is if you do buy a dinger, NF will take it and repair it and send it back working most of the time. You can definitely get one cheap if someone's fails at a match. Grab it fast and run before they cool down from the blown gasket. I bought a Leupold scope that way one time on a hunting trip. It's was a VXIII series and the guy missed 2 big bucks with it. Shot it on paper and shots were all over. I tried to tell him to pull it and check the rings and bases but he figured it was junk. The next season he told me his rear base was so loose that he could literally pull the screws out by hand. Asked if I'd sell it back to him. He owns it again and hasn't had a problem since. Get it when the gettin is good.

 

[Ned Ludd]

No one is perfect. Likewise, no manufacturer has an absolutely perfect track record. If a problem occurs, the first step should always be to give the manufacturer the opportunity to correct the problem.

 

[lgwatson]

NF does not like to admit any scope issues. You need to do more than one 3 shot group for testing. But if you swap scopes and you problem is gone then you have you answer. NF does not test scopes on a rifle or in a way that duplicates recoil.

Did two tests: First mounted an old Weaver k-15 known to hold zero. 3 fireform rounds were less that 1/2". Second test: Mounted a Leupold VX-6 4-24 F2.
Started with a clean cold barrel. Shot eleven fire-form rounds in one ragged hole. These fire-form rounds are not my most accurate load.