Lack of chucks

[Cold Bore]

I have a hard time believing coyotes are the reason. I haven't, nor has anybody I know, seen coyotes hunting woodchucks in broad daylight in large open fields where the chucks live.

Most of the hogs that I see and hunt come out of fencelines or treelines, many more than live in holes out in the middle of fields.

Fencelines and treelines make for easy stalking for coyotes.

 

[WyleWD]

cooperve in his post above is correct. No till farming has nothing to do with it. There are a few counties in Ohio that still have a fair population of chucks. The county that has the best population of chucks in the state has been using no-till way longer than any other county in the state. That county nearly pioneered the art back in the 60's,70's & 80"s.

Coyotes for sure are the biggest reason. On 3 occasions I've seen coyotes killing chucks in broad daylight. All 3 times there was a pair of coyotes and they are good at it. A full grown chuck is dispatched by them in well under 5 seconds.

Ask about any old farmer and most will tell you of a dog they used to have that would take off back into the field and come back in an hour or two with a groundhog. A pair of coyotes are much more efficient hunters than the old farm dog, and if you have a pack of coyotes, daily each needing 2-4lbs of meat each to sustain their metabolism...do the math.... plus a den of pups to feed just about the time the young chucks come out. The chucks lose. Just my experience . WD

 

[GT Accuracy]

Well yotes it is then. That's a shame. I was hoping for something else being the predominate factor but alas

 

[AckleymanII]

Well yotes it is then. That's a shame. I was hoping for something else being the predominate factor but alas

Trappers can really put the hurt on the coyote population, if your state will allow them to. Our state does a lot to protect coyotes, and our deer and turkey population is way down.

 

[waterfwlr]

Most of the hogs that I see and hunt come out of fencelines or treelines, many more than live in holes out in the middle of fields.

Fencelines and treelines make for easy stalking for coyotes.

I did think of that as well. Bunch of holes just inside of the fields.

 

[waterfwlr]

I would just think, around here, if there were enough coyotes killing enough chucks out in fields, someone would have seen something. I spoke to all the local farmers. Nobody has seen that. I'm talking a couple thousand acres. I read somewhere not long ago about some organization(dec??)was doing a study as to why the sharp decline. Regardless, I kill every coyote I see.

 

[Gary in MD]

I'm sure that we have some coyotes in Maryland but not as many in other states.
When the fur prices went way down from the mid 1980's on, there was also a big decline in trapping foxes. I gave up also.
Shortly after that is when there was a big increase in foxes that I was seeing.
There were days out hunting for groundhogs that I would see foxes all over the place, especially in the early summer when the pups were running around.
Man.... those things are soft, kind of like a cat!
Gary

 

[fredo]

My buddy shot a 'chuck last weekend (central NY) When he walked over to the hole, there was a baby 'chuck laying there, next to momma. It was about the size of a baked potato...

We've got coyotes here, and they sure do hunt & eat 'chucks! Have watched them spy holes & have seen coyotes runnin' across fields with 'chucks in their mouths. (NY season on coyotes is October-March, so shootin' coyotes while out 'chuckin' is a NO-NO).
Anyhoo, I maintain that the major reason for the lack of 'chucks in my specific AO is due to my own hunting pressure. As evidenced by the 'baked potato' last weekend, shooting a momma 'chuck this time of year in my AO could potentially negate an entire litter of future furry targets. Reckon it wouldn't take many instances like that in a localized area to put a hurtin' on numbers...

If ya want 'em all gone, then shoot early & shoot often!

If ya want to manage your furry target resource, give them lil' taters time to get growed up.

Based on last week, figure I'll be doing less of the former and more of the latter...

 

[stosh]

Grew up in eastern Missouri used to shoot chucks all the time, never saw a coyote. Moved away in 69 ended up in upstate NY in mid 80's where we had an abundance of chucks and never saw coyotes until late 1990's. Started seeing Coyotes when I was chuck hunting and watched the chuck hunting go to hell! I saw many Coyotes kill chucks or eating chucks when I was out hunting. Moved back to Missouri in 2002 and there are no chucks but Coyotes all over! Coyotes are the reason there are no chucks. The farmers used to poison Coyotes but it is illegal for years now and the Coyotes have made a big comeback! BTW same thing with Quale and Rabbits!

 

[savagedasher]

I live in Florida 10 years ago we had a good deer population and a hog problem.
Last year I never seen a fawn and no hogs . Where I hunt. Rabbits have totally disappeared . The sand roads has plenty of coyote tracks. Last year I seen more coyote then I did deer and hogs together . Larry

 

[LitLBoy]

Snares!

 

[Brians356]

Interesting article about NC coyotes by an NCSU biology professor. No mention of woodchucks, but it says white-tail deer make up 1/3 to 2/3 of the eastern coyote's diet. Also that eastern coyotes north of Virginia have about 8% each of wolf and domestic dog genes from when they migrated through the Great Lakes region. Eastern coyotes south of Virginia mostly migrated through the southern US and are much more pure coyotes.

Coyotes are nothing if not opportunistic predators. The abundance of Marmota monax in the NE US probably facilitated their successful establishment to a significant degree.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/science-technology/article43795554.html
-

 

[284winner]

Sounds like the new game in town is going to be yote hunting. When cows give birth, that's usually the time I'm hunting Chuck's in Ohio. I've seen on several occasions, coyotes circling the cows and calves and even pulling the umbilical cord from the cow after birthing a calf. Killed a few in that process under the farmers direction. It only makes sense that coyotes DO kill Chuck's but wouldn't imagine they would lower the population to that degree. After reading some of the above facts I suppose they certainly could have an impact to that degree. Let's clean up the yotes then. Don't matter if I'm helping the Chuck's or the farmers, I'm still shooting a destructive critter to later be able to shoot a destructive critter.

 

[6MMsteve]

Ground pigs in Ky are mainly around the barns and sides of the road these days but when several people kill 100 or 200 a year they will depopulate shortly, We farmed and grew around 200 acres of alfalfa so when I mowed the hay I new every hole and would sit on the tractor thinking of ways to make long shots and plotting the field for multiple kills in one sitting, I think it's a combination of no-till, hunting and yotes

 

[6MMsteve]

Our farm is in CRP now and I have actually seen holes out in the feilds, so they are moving somewhat away from the barns. Another thing in Ky they have made new hunting rules permission to hunt, no shooting off vehicles I think, plus farmers are not letting people hunt anymore because of Liability plus here in Barren County farmers are selling land and it's gettin subdivided in lots more houses out and about the countryside.

 

[40X Guy]

Greg -



Howdy !

For my money... yeah.... the numbers of " Soybeanus Digestus " went into decline co-incidental to the onset of " no - till " farming.
Groundhogs already had to contend w/ the contamination of a lot of their prefered food, by herbicides like Amiben, Lorsban, Bigfoot, Prowl; and the like.

On top of that, no till brought along the practice of " burn down " or chemical treatment of the non cash grain vegetation; which was needed to help the soybeans out-grow any competing plants. Can't say fer sher how much of the soybean growing season groundhogs would be exposed to contaminated beans plants ? But, I point out that many herbicides are called " post -emerge ", or... for application after the young plants emerge from the ground. That co-incides w/ mom emerging from the den w/ her pups, for their introduction to the joys of soybeans.

Heck... read a jug of " Roundup ", and see how long after sprayin something w/ that stuff that you'd eat the treated plant !

Now, add-on that groundhogs are on the coyote " hot lunch program ", predation by hawks and such, foxes, determined dogs, vehicular mischief; et al.

There a many secluded spots in NE Indiana where groundhogs might go years w/o ever being shot at. And even in those spots, groundhog seem to be less prevelant than what had been historically seen. IMHO - yes... they CAN be shot into oblivion. But, that is not the universal or even the leading cause for the decline in numbers.

IF you can find a farmer that grows soybeans purely " organically " and eskews chemicals, you might see whether his groundhog populations seem more robust ? Good luck with that. His combine costs more than your house, and he has lots of other machinery to pay for.
" Rock N' Roll is here to stay " ! So is " No Till ".


With regards,
357Mag

I believe Kevin has this nailed with his post. A combo of yotes and chemicals are slowing down the population growth of the woodchucks. Where the farmers still conform to time honored land and farm practices with no chemicals the chucks thrive. We go hunting on property the Amish own and a bunch of generational farms that have been doing it for 150 years and we have no shortage of targets here in NW Pa. Sure the occasional yote will get his lunch but around these parts they get knocked off pretty frequently.

When no till farming came along with the associated chemicals then sure chucks are going to become scarcer. They get sick, die or move away from GMO crops and all the chemicals. Same goes for humans, we thrive eating natural foods and minerals with no chemicals the same as the woodchuck. Sad state of affairs.

Frank

 

[K22]

What I've seen in Eastern PA that has contributed the most to the decline in ghogs is over development and change in farming practices. The days of standing hay fields where ghogs could establish burrows is declining. The farmers are planting more variety of crops, rotating every years so the ghogs are moving into the tree lines because they can't bet established in the field. Several of the farms where I hunt the farmer has removed tree lines to produce more unshaded space with better crop growth. These factors along with over development are making ghog hunting very difficult these days in my area. Ten years ago I would see anywhere from 10 to 15 ghogs per farm. Now a days I'm lucking to see 3 to 4.

While there are a lot of coyotes in this area I have never seen a coyote kill a ghog and I spend about 40 days a summer in the field hunting ghogs. Not saying it isn't happening; I just have never seen it.

I can't complain however, I've had a hell of run at it for almost 40 years - some great hunts - great memories - great shots - some bad misses - but most of all some great times in the outdoors. The irony is that I finally got all the equipment and shooting system issues mastered but the days of great hunting appear to be over. Still it's fun just to be out in the field - I've killed my fair share of them so I'm happy these days with a challenging shot now and then.

 

[Hosted]

I'm a farmer in Northeast Indiana. We are no till farmers that use chemicals and we have them everywhere. We've be farming this way since 1990 and we have seen no decline in numbers except when I run my connibears. Have trapped 150 in a year and have neighbors that have gotten over 200 but I usually don't spend that much time at it and average around 50. I've been spraying the last few weeks and are seeing lots of fresh holes along fence rows and while driving down the roads. Hoping to get some more time to shoot them this year but with a young family I don't have much free time anymore. Have a friend that is going to hunt them and see what he can do this year. We have plenty of coyotes around but they don't seem to be affecting the population much. A friend of mine has a picture from his trail cam with one carrying one back to the woods though. They are a pain and do a lot of damage but racoons actually do much more crop damage than groundhogs.

 

[drover]

There is no doubt that coyotes do have an effect on the chuck population but IMO it is the number of folks who hunt them now that is having the greatest impact on them. In the past decades there were not nearly as many varmint hunters as there are now. To a degree the same thing is happening with prairie dog and ground squirrel hunting, they are all finite populations while the number of folks who hunt them is growing every year.
I am old enough that varmint hunting was more of a casual thing or targets of opportunity, very few people actually hunted varmints. Now we have magazine articles about it, web-sites dedicated to it, specialized equipment for it, etc. I remember the first time I heard of someone actually doing a Prairie Dog Safari - my first thought was that "this will never sell", was I ever wrong on that one.

drover
















there

 

[GT Accuracy]

I got on a few today! About 15 in a 130 acre field. I only shot one but loved watching the young ones out learning how to groundhog.

Then boom - a bald eagle came down and took a pup. It was quite impressive. I'll bring my camera next time for sure