Lack of chucks

[GT Accuracy]

Hey guys,


I know many of us in the northeast and mid atlantic have noticed the sharp decline in woodchucks/groundhogs over the past few years. Many have blamed it on coyotes or mange but I was just speaking with a few farmers here in NE PA and they had and interesting view.

They said that when they went to no till planting chuck numbers drastically dropped.

Can any of you ask / analyze your hunting areas and see if you are seeing the reduced numbers on no till fields vs higher numbers on traditional tilled fields? Would be an interesting possible fact

 

[Carolina Man]

Hey guys,


I know many of us in the northeast and mid atlantic have noticed the sharp decline in woodchucks/groundhogs over the past few years. Many have blamed it on coyotes or mange but I was just speaking with a few farmers here in NE PA and they had and interesting view.

They said that when they went to no till planting chuck numbers drastically dropped.

Can any of you ask / analyze your hunting areas and see if you are seeing the reduced numbers on no till fields vs higher numbers on traditional tilled fields? Would be an interesting possible fact

 

[Carolina Man]

Greg,
I have a place 7 miles outside of Montrose which has very little farming, mostly dairy cattle. You know that area. Very few groundhogs anymore but mostly do to a rising Coyote population. Found the remains of a road kill deer where the coyotes had stripped the bones just last week. They are getting really bad up in NE Pa

 

[GT Accuracy]

i would agree about the yotes. I thought they were the sole issue...but then again we have technically always had coyotes around here. I think its a combination of a lot of things but this was just something I can actually test.

Montrose is a great area.

 

[waterfwlr]

I have a hard time believing coyotes are the reason. I haven't, nor has anybody I know, seen coyotes hunting woodchucks in broad daylight in large open fields where the chucks live. And the woodchucks aren't nocturnal. Doesn't make sense. Almost non existent in Delaware county now, past 15 yrs or so

 

[GT Accuracy]

Water,

have they been doing no-till for that long? Ask around - see what you find

 

[stacy]

I CAN'T SAY ABOUT PA BUT HERE IN WESTERN NC THEY ARE GONE AND COYOTES IS ALL I CAN COME UP WITH BUT, THEY DO DRILL FEILDS AROUND HERE ?
HAVEN'T SEEN A GROUNDGRIZZLY ON MY PLACE IN MANY YRS! BUT HAVE TAKEN 7 COYOTES AND HEAR THEM ALOT HERE ON THE FARM!

 

[TominSWNY]

I have a hard time believing coyotes are the reason. I haven't, nor has anybody I know, seen coyotes hunting woodchucks in broad daylight in large open fields where the chucks live. And the woodchucks aren't nocturnal. Doesn't make sense. Almost non existent in Delaware county now, past 15 yrs or so

I watched a coyote low crawl on a woodchuck one afternoon in an open field. Shot the chuck and the coyote was 200 yards away on the next look and moving flat out.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Killing the females early in the season, before the young are weaned, I believe has more of an effect than some care to admit. I never start until the young are seen "out on their own". I hope there are plenty for my grandson and his sons.

 

[TominSWNY]

Killing the females early in the season, before the young are weaned, I believe has more of an effect than some care to admit. I never start until the young are seen "out on their own". I hope there are plenty for my grandson and his sons.

Never went out in the field until the 1st of June

 

[Gary in MD]

Same thing here in western MD. I've been noticing the lack of groundhogs for the last 10 years. I do see some along side the roads, but on the farms where I hunt, I don't see much. In the 80's and 90's I could get 20 or more shots in a day, now I'm lucky to get 6.
We never hunted until we felt that the young were weened from the mother and always tried to "leave some seed" for the next year. I don't even see the amount of holes like in the past. The fox population has increased so I think they are partly to blame and maybe a few coyotes.
Gary

 

[waterfwlr]

Water,

have they been doing no-till for that long? Ask around - see what you find

Not sure, will try and find out.

 

[waterfwlr]

I watched a coyote low crawl on a woodchuck one afternoon in an open field. Shot the chuck and the coyote was 200 yards away on the next look and moving flat out.

Interesting. In the northeast?

 

[waterfwlr]

Killing the females early in the season, before the young are weaned, I believe has more of an effect than some care to admit. I never start until the young are seen "out on their own". I hope there are plenty for my grandson and his sons.

Totally agree. We would wait till after first cut.

 

[msinc]

I live in southern Maryland and we are not hurting for woodchucks. A few years back I saw one that was at least twice as big as the largest one I have ever seen, I was trying to determine how long they lived because we only saw this thing once. In my quest I read an article about them that said they all die of a form of woodchuck hepatitis. It is very contagious among them and this study claimed that they only live 3-5 years because of it.
We are kind of lucky here, down on a peninsula. We are late to get things that migrate like coyotes. We have a few, but nothing like the areas around here 100 miles in any direction. I don't know if it is really coyotes doing it. What is supposed to be the big deal regarding no till farming???? How does that hurt woodchucks????
I have a cabin in Virginia. The county my cabin is in {Rockbridge} has very few woodchucks. At least I have never seen one there since 2011 when I bought the place. One county up in Nelson I am told there are plenty. One guy suggested that the ground was too rocky where my cabin is.

 

[LitLBoy]

I live in SE Ohio (Zanesville) coyotes bad, cleaned out all the chucks, most of the turkey and really hard on the deer. PO'ed enough guys in my areal that the snares when out in large numbers, made a real dent in the coyote population. Turkey coming back, and starting to see a few chucks. Several years ago coyotes were taking small dogs and cats in this area while the owners watched. Please don't try to tell me coyotes don't hunt in the day time. They takes chucks as easy as you go to the store and pick up a loaf of bread.

 

[cooperve]

Coyotes for sure around my area in Coshocton County, Ohio. I never shot a ground hog until after May 15 to allow little ones to be on their own. Very few ground hogs and I don’t shoot them anymore. Old holes don’t even get cleaned out each spring like the past.

No-till has nothing to do with it.

Last year mushroom hunting I found two fresh kill ground hog hides still bloody in the woods. Only thing left was the hide.

 

[GT Accuracy]

Very interesting experiences. Also very sad state that things are in.

Wonder if it will ever turn around or will chucks go the way of the roughed grouse and pheasant in NE PA

 

[tuttlefarm]

In Tioga county Pa. We have many predators killing the groundhogs. Here is a picture of a hawk standing on a baby groundhog. I also saw a Bald eagle eating a groundhog.

 

[357Mag]

Greg -



Howdy !

For my money... yeah.... the numbers of " Soybeanus Digestus " went into decline co-incidental to the onset of " no - till " farming.
Groundhogs already had to contend w/ the contamination of a lot of their prefered food, by herbicides like Amiben, Lorsban, Bigfoot, Prowl; and the like.

On top of that, no till brought along the practice of " burn down " or chemical treatment of the non cash grain vegetation; which was needed to help the soybeans out-grow any competing plants. Can't say fer sher how much of the soybean growing season groundhogs would be exposed to contaminated beans plants ? But, I point out that many herbicides are called " post -emerge ", or... for application after the young plants emerge from the ground. That co-incides w/ mom emerging from the den w/ her pups, for their introduction to the joys of soybeans.

Heck... read a jug of " Roundup ", and see how long after sprayin something w/ that stuff that you'd eat the treated plant !

Now, add-on that groundhogs are on the coyote " hot lunch program ", predation by hawks and such, foxes, determined dogs, vehicular mischief; et al.

There a many secluded spots in NE Indiana where groundhogs might go years w/o ever being shot at. And even in those spots, groundhog seem to be less prevelant than what had been historically seen. IMHO - yes... they CAN be shot into oblivion. But, that is not the universal or even the leading cause for the decline in numbers.

IF you can find a farmer that grows soybeans purely " organically " and eskews chemicals, you might see whether his groundhog populations seem more robust ? Good luck with that. His combine costs more than your house, and he has lots of other machinery to pay for.
" Rock N' Roll is here to stay " ! So is " No Till ".


With regards,
357Mag