Yet another barrel cleaning thread . . .

[RGRobinett]

A recently purchased .223 Rem. 788 barrel was the most extensively fouled barrel ever viewed [by yours truly] using the trusty Hawkeye Bore-scope! The barrel appeared to have NEVER seen a cleaning-rod. So, just for kicks, the Lyman Bore-Cam was unboxed (compared to the Hawkeye and Teslong, image quality noticeably lacking) and rigged, accommodating a photographic sequence of how/if the cleaning products work as advertised.

Caveat: Since about Y2K, I have generally used Sharp Shoot R Precision products: ACCELERATOR; Wipe-Out foaming; Wipe-out Patch-Out; and/or (since introduced) Tactical Advantage. Going back to when Meril (Sp?) Martin introduce it, 99+% of the bullets I shoot are "moly-coated", and since 1988, none of my competition barrels have ever seen a brush - prior to the Wipe-Out, I used either Rem-Clean, or, JB on snug patch, in conjunction with either Marvel Mystery Oil, or, whatever solvent was handy. I am not suggesting that this will work for every situation - the Hawkeye has shown it to work with my method(s).

So, here are some Lyman Bore-Cam pics:
First, as initially purchased & viewed, beginning with the leade/throat. This is a six-groove barrel - two views seems sufficient.

now, mid barrel, to just behind muzzel.

The barrel was then subjected to several soakings with the combination of ACCELLERATOR/TACTICAL ADVANTAGE, which produced this [patch] progression - OOOOops only six pics allowed! RG

link to group testing < https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...e-yet-another-barrel-cleaning-thread.4108395/ >

 

[RGRobinett]

A recently purchased .223 Rem. 788 barrel was the most extensively fouled barrel ever viewed using the trusty Hawkeye Bore-scope! The barrel appeared to have NEVER seen a cleaning-rod. So, just for kicks, the Lyman Bore-Cam was unboxed (compared to the Hawkeye and Teslong, image quality noticeably lacking) and rigged, accommodating a photographic sequence of how/if the cleaning products work as advertised.

Caveat: Since about Y2K, I have generally used Sharp Shoot R Precision products: ACCELERATOR; Wipe-Out foaming; Wipe-out Patch-Out; and/or (since introduced) Tactical Advantage. Going back to when Meril (Sp?) Martin introduce it, 99+% of the bullets I shoot are "moly-coated", and since 1988, none of my competition barrels have ever seen a brush - prior to the Wipe-Out, I used either Rem-Clean, or, JB on snug patch, in conjunction with either Marvel Mystery Oil, or, whatever solvent was handy. I am not suggesting that this will work for every situation - the Hawkeye has shown it to work with my method(s).

So, here are some Lyman Bore-Cam pics:
First, as initially purchased & viewed, beginning with the leade/throat. This is a six-groove barrel - two views seems sufficient.
View attachment 1485723View attachment 1485724
now, mid barrel, to just behind muzzel.
View attachment 1485725View attachment 1485726View attachment 1485727View attachment 1485729
The barrel was then subjected to several soakings with the combination of ACCELLERATOR/TACTICAL ADVANTAGE, which
produced this [patch] progression - OOOOops only six pics allowed! RG

To shorten it some, the progression on patches (Rt. - Lt.): bottom row is a fresh Accellerator/TacAdv patch every couple of hours. With Tac-Adv, the brownish color indicates carbon.
Following the bottom row, the barrel was corked and filled with SLIP 2000, and soaked for 24 hours. The closed patch (far Rt.) is an initial patch to evacuate most of the SLIP 2K before making some Lyman B/C pics. Beginning at the third from left/top row pic, was a return to ACCELERATOR/TacAdv, at about 2 Hr. intervals - NO brushing. Just wanted some evidence regarding the effectiveness of the SLIP 2K.

The last pic set displays the effectiveness of the process - again, beginning at the leade/throat and moving toward the muzzle. I like the NO elbow grease part . . . though not finished, a great improvement with little physical effort - only some stubborn carbon remains. RG

P.S. the dark 'line' to the right IS the bevel at the chamber mouth. When it comes to resolution, the Lyman cam is somewhat lacking. That said, the Cu and carbon remaining in the 'fire-cracking' & pits MAY be a GOOD THING!! For just another 'fun old factory gun' project this one is off to a good start - practically 'stole' the 788 from a pawn-shop in SD.



Link to group testing: https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...e-yet-another-barrel-cleaning-thread.4108395/

 

[jelenko]

That is one fouled barrel!

Pics of the bore at the breech will also be interesting.

 

[JEFFPPC]

If this was a SS barrel I would put Sweets in over night just out of curiosity to see what you have if anything. If it was my own rifle I would do the Sweets test anyways. Very interesting, thanks,

 

[3Ackleys]

How did it shoot before cleaning? I have a 223 that has over 4k rounds so far without ever being cleaned, it still shoots the same as when it was new.

 

[jelenko]

How did it shoot before cleaning? I have a 223 that has over 4k rounds so far without ever being cleaned, it still shoots the same as when it was new.

Would you have a pic of the bore? I'd just like to see what it looks like.

 

[Pres100]

Would you have a pic of the bore? I'd just like to see what it looks like.

looks like there are pics of the bore already.... did you mean chamber?

 

[jelenko]

looks like there are pics of the bore already.... did you mean chamber?

Argg.
Yes. I meant to say a pic of the bore near the chamber. Assuming the bore near the chamber is going to be a bit more fouled.

 

[Pres100]

No worries ... but the first two pics are the throat at the end of the chamber and beginning of bore! Harder to tell with that resolution

 

[jelenko]

No worries ... but the first two pics are the throat at the end of the chamber and beginning of bore! Harder to tell with that resolution

Ah. I missed the wording just before the first two pics.
Thanks

PS. The throat/leade area doesn't look that bad - at least it looks like metal showing on the lands.

 

[DShortt]

How did it shoot before cleaning? I have a 223 that has over 4k rounds so far without ever being cleaned, it still shoots the same as when it was new.

Hmmm.

You shooting matches with it or ..... ?

 

[RGRobinett]

How did it shoot before cleaning? I have a 223 that has over 4k rounds so far without ever being cleaned, it still shoots the same as when it was new.

I had no intention to see how well the 788 would shoot prior to cleaning - only to mess with another 'old' factory rifle - it wouldn't have mattered if it appeared,"spanking new". I never fire a rifle without cleaning the barrel.

I bore-scoped it, using the Hawkeye, fully expecting the lands be be completely eroded for a couple of inches. As is, the carbon may have slowed the erosion - is that possible??? While there is significant fire-cracking, it appears that the lands should be fully functional.

Once i can make some time, I'll shoot to see what it's capable of, then pillar-bed and see if it improves - with the "old" rifles I have been playing with, that was/is the intent.

Relative to center-line, the original factory wood shows only about 2/3rds tang contact: as viewed from behind, fully 1/3rd of the left-hand portion of the tang does not contact the stock. The receiver-ring only contacts the bottom left-hand side. The action, between the receiver-ring and tang is free-floated - did Remington do THAT intentionally? The action inlet is noticeably off the longitudinal center-line. The barrel is fully and more than amply free-floated: three business cards worth, or, about 0.030", it's full length, and appears to also be "factory work". Regarding these attributes, what say some 788 GURUS?!!?

Having been possessed by bench-rest [precision] rifles for 47 years, I enjoying messing with stuff which isn't supposed to work, & requires some thinking and tinkering. That said, I thought that showing how well the SLIP 2000 busted the carbon, may help people. The deal with the SLIP 2K is that the parts must be immersed - thus, the corked muzzle - patching simply will not work . . . at least, not in a normal life-time . . .

For the few barrel/powder combinations where carbon has been problematic, I have been using the SLIP 2K since it was first advertised in PRECISION SHOOTING (mid-late 1990's). I was initially disappointed (wet patching & soaking), however, a call to the SLIP 2K boss put me on track and it's always worked just as with this barrel - again, the most severely fouled barrel my Hawkeye bore-scope has ever viewed. RG

 

[DShortt]

Well it's not the worst fouled bore I'VE ever seen and I don't have nearly the experience some here do.

Just my personal observations. Nothing more.

 

[snert]

Interesting stuff. Thanks RG

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

If this was a SS barrel I would put Sweets in over night just out of curiosity to see what you have if anything. If it was my own rifle I would do the Sweets test anyways. Very interesting, thanks,

The same Sweets that has "do not leave in longer than 15 minutes" printed on the package?

 

[PatMiles]

Having been possessed by bench-rest [precision] rifles for 47 years, I enjoying messing with stuff which isn't supposed to work, & requires some thinking and tinkering. That said, I thought that showing how well the SLIP 2000 busted the carbon, may help people. The deal with the SLIP 2K is that the parts must be immersed - thus, the corked muzzle - patching simply will not work . . . at least, not in a normal life-time . . .

For the few barrel/powder combinations where carbon has been problematic, I have been using the SLIP 2K since it was first advertised in PRECISION SHOOTING (mid-late 1990's). I was initially disappointed (wet patching & soaking), however, a call to the SLIP 2K boss put me on track and it's always worked just as with this barrel - again, the most severely fouled barrel my Hawkeye bore-scope has ever viewed. RG

RG,
I've had the same experience with Slip 2000. Wet patches do no good, I have to plug the breech with a rubber cork, fill the barrel with Slip and leave it overnight standing up in a corner. The Slip was black when I poured it out the next morning. Very little carbon left in the barrel which came out easily with a few wetted patches. The key is leaving the Slip overnight.

 

[BoydAllen]

The information about Slip 2000 is entirely new to me. Thanks for that. I have worked with several fellows on getting huge accumulations of hard carbon out of barrels. For us, the trick has been patience. Base on several cases we came up with a method that works, without harming the barrel.

On the 788, when I got my first one, it was entirely as built and the barrel made uneven contact with the stock, causing bullet impacts to walk severely as the barrel heated up. Back then I did not know about pillar bedding, but the, barrel floating and skim bedding that I did on those rifles benefited their accuracy a lot. There are a couple of tricks that I figured out when doing those jobs.

 

[nakneker]

I had no intention to see how well the 788 would shoot prior to cleaning - only to mess with another 'old' factory rifle - it wouldn't have mattered if it appeared,"spanking new". I never fire a rifle without cleaning the barrel.

I bore-scoped it, using the Hawkeye, fully expecting the lands be be completely eroded for a couple of inches. As is, the carbon may have slowed the erosion - is that possible??? While there is significant fire-cracking, it appears that the lands should be fully functional.

Once i can make some time, I'll shoot to see what it's capable of, then pillar-bed and see if it improves - with the "old" rifles I have been playing with, that was/is the intent.

Relative to center-line, the original factory wood shows only about 2/3rds tang contact: as viewed from behind, fully 1/3rd of the left-hand portion of the tang does not contact the stock. The receiver-ring only contacts the bottom left-hand side. The action, between the receiver-ring and tang is free-floated - did Remington do THAT intentionally? The action inlet is noticeably off the longitudinal center-line. The barrel is fully and more than amply free-floated: three business cards worth, or, about 0.030", it's full length, and appears to also be "factory work". Regarding these attributes, what say some 788 GURUS?!!?

Having been possessed by bench-rest [precision] rifles for 47 years, I enjoying messing with stuff which isn't supposed to work, & requires some thinking and tinkering. That said, I thought that showing how well the SLIP 2000 busted the carbon, may help people. The deal with the SLIP 2K is that the parts must be immersed - thus, the corked muzzle - patching simply will not work . . . at least, not in a normal life-time . . .

For the few barrel/powder combinations where carbon has been problematic, I have been using the SLIP 2K since it was first advertised in PRECISION SHOOTING (mid-late 1990's). I was initially disappointed (wet patching & soaking), however, a call to the SLIP 2K boss put me on track and it's always worked just as with this barrel - again, the most severely fouled barrel my Hawkeye bore-scope has ever viewed. RG

Good content. I’ve owned a lot of 788s, they have varied between appearing free floated from the factory and warped stocks with pressure points somewhere along the way but they have also been some of the best shooting factory rifle Ives owned after some TLC, even with their crappy factory trigger. I’ve never used Slip 2k. Now I want to find an old grudge rifle to try it on. Thanks for the thread!

 

[JEFFPPC]

The same Sweets that has "do not leave in longer than 15 minutes" printed on the package?

.......And then says repeat procedure until all the blue is gone. Use your brain man.

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

.......And then says repeat procedure until all the blue is gone. Use your brain man.

Well it's fortunate that you can repeat it many times overnight in fifteen minute intervals since you'll be sure not to leave it in too long.