Wow, can something this inexpensive be that good?

[CatShooter]

The seating depth is controlled by the distance from the surface in the shell holder that the case sits on to the seating stem in the die. The sleeve has nothing to do with it at all, its function is to align the case before the bullet is seated. Shortening the sleeve allows the case to find a closer fit at the top of the sleeve, where the shoulder makes contact, so that it is better centered as the bullet is seated.

And if the sleeve has a bur/lump that pushes the case off center what do you have then. The sleeve is eating my brass when rotated in the sleeve and this high spot is shaving brass. This high spot isn't going to help center my cases in the sleeve if the sleeve is shortened.

These two cases were resized in two different FL dies to show die variations in shoulders and the contact points inside the sleeve. dmoran has made a good point, I have two AR15s and a Bolt action .223 and several types and makes of dies. I do not believe shortening my Froster seating sleeve will give better alignment with a bur, lump, pimple, ding, defect at the neck juncture of the sleeve.

Ed... you cannot expect good results from defective dies - send those broke puppies back

 

[CatShooter]

If your cases don't have the same headspace (??), why are you worried about it?... they are either new, or from other guns and they won't be accurate until they are fired and fit the chamber anyway.

Measure your spent brass headspace and tell yourself how equal they are.
For those who re-size every time, typically they will be pretty close. For those who neck only, there more ape to have variance. But in both scenario's there can be variance to the shoulder in any regards, more often then your implying.

I thought that was an interesting question, so I went and measured a bunch of 6mmBR tight necks from my HV rifle.

I took a bunch of twice fired cases from a bucket that is waiting to be loaded. They have 0.0085" neck walls (I removed the keyboard just for you ).

As you can see, they are neck sized.

I zero'ed on the first case I picked up and measured 26 cases. The total spread from longest to shortest was +0.0005" to -0.001", for a total of 0.0015".

Actually, I was surprised that the variance was that small - none of my comp and BR bullet seaters (and bullets) will seat even close to that tolerance, so using a short sleeve is a non-issue in making accuracy loads.

(I'll put the keyboard back now )

 

[bigedp51]

Ed... you cannot expect good results from defective dies - send those broke puppies back

catshooter

Are you saying to send the Forster seating die back to Forster, how do I explain that I want to grind the bottom of the sleeve off and the rough upper section of the die that "normally" never touches the case is keeping me from modifying the sleeve. :

Some how I do not think my two dyslexic fingers are getting my point across. There is NOTHING wrong with my resizing dies, but the top portion of the Forster seating die sleeve was chewed out by beavers and is a "little" rough inside.

If I remove anything off the bottom of the sleeve I will end up with "MORE" neck runout and "NOT" less.

 

[CatShooter]

Ed... you cannot expect good results from defective dies - send those broke puppies back

catshooter

Are you saying to send the Forster seating die back to Forster, how do I explain that I want to grind the bottom of the sleeve off and the rough upper section of the die that "normally" never touches the case is keeping me from modifying the sleeve.

Some how I do not think my two dyslexic fingers are getting my point across. There is NOTHING wrong with my resizing dies, but the top portion of the Forster seating die sleeve was chewed out by beavers and is a "little" rough inside.

If I remove anything off the bottom of the sleeve I will end up with "MORE" neck runout and "NOT" less.

Ed... you do not have to explain anything - the people at Forster are GREAT - if the seating sleeve is defective, they will replace it - you don't have to explain anything.

Send it back to Forster, with a funky case like you showed, and ask Forster to replace the defective sleeve.... when you get it back, then take the bottom off.

Remember to coat it in G-96 after you take the bottom off - it smells so nice

 

[amlevin]

amlevin

Your thread has forked off into modifying seating dies, would you prefer if it was in a separate thread. I don't want to have a foul called for pass interference and deflecting the "football".

Its your thread and your call.

You posted while I was writing the above, and I just read your above posting and you are hijacking your own thread. I'm going to a AR15 forum where you don't have to be polite to forum members and are allowed to kick people in the groin.

No issues with the "hijack". I've learned a few things from the comments and contributions.

BTW, the batch I finally got nice and straight shot great. In a load workup I found the magic recipe with a nice little group that could be covered with the base of a .308 cartridge at 200 yards. Average to center was .101 MOA as measured with "On Target". Considering that this is more a "Tactical" rifle than BR and was shooting from a bipod I'm pleased.

 

[amlevin]

While we are off topic, Sinclair concentricity gauge for cases, H&H for loaded with the capability of straightening. I have tried a number, and own several different. of those that support the case in two places, the Sinclair bearing balls have the least friction of all that I have tried. If you want to cut down on reading problems caused by the joint in your index finger, get a long hard rubber eraser, and roll the case with it. or pull a length of surgical tubing over s round rod of some sort and roll the case with that. Different loaded round support designs give different readings. That does not mean that any of them are wrong.

The only question I have about concentricity gauges that use ball bearings for support is the fact that the case rides on a small contact point. If there is the slightest imperfection in the case it will amplify runout over the runout indicated from V-Block supports. The wider surfaces would tend to more mimic what the case is going to encounter when chambered.

I'm sure that both work but is it just possible that the ball bearing type supports are prone to showing more runout than actually matters??

 

[BoydAllen]

Having used both many times, no.

 

[mikecr]

You see plenty enough with bearings. And you'll see atleast as much or more with a V-Block.
If you only wish to see about 1/10th of your TIR, you can use one of the neck benders.

 

[CatShooter]

I have both, and I usually reach for the one piece "V" block. It also shows rocking (what some call "banana body"), which the bearings cannot do.