Wow, can something this inexpensive be that good?

[jsthntn247]

Thinking about doing this on my .308 forester micrometer seater. Is .015 generally enough for the bottom to contact the case and not the shell holder?

 

[Phil3]

Are the sleeves hardened?

 

[CatShooter]

Thinking about doing this on my .308 forester micrometer seater. Is .015 generally enough for the bottom to contact the case and not the shell holder?

Put a fired and sized case (in whatever way you size them) into the sleeve. Measure the amount that the base of the case sticks out. It should be greater than 0.140 or MORE. (0.125 for the shell holder,, + 0.015" space). If it is not 0.14", the cut off the amount that it needs.

On one of mine, I cut off nearly 1/2", because I needed it for a progressive machine, and the sleeve was in the way. I cut it flush to the bottom of the die body.

The sleeves are not hardened.

 

[stubbicatt]

Just measured the sleeve on my Whidden 6.5x47 die. I took a new case and inserted it into the sleeve, and with the tail of a vernier caliper came up with 0.147"

Correct me if I am wrong, but this should give nearly .023" clearance between the shell holder (properly machined) and the bottom of the sleeve, so that it is not touching??

Regards,
Stubb

 

[CatShooter]

Just measured the sleeve on my Whidden 6.5x47 die. I took a new case and inserted it into the sleeve, and with the tail of a vernier caliper came up with 0.147"

Correct me if I am wrong, but this should give nearly .023" clearance between the shell holder (properly machined) and the bottom of the sleeve, so that it is not touching??

Regards,
Stubb

Slide a shell holder over the base when it is in the sleeve, and see how much space you have.

 

[amlevin]

amlevin what's the loaded runout off bullets?
Your new expander 'football' may not be doing anything. That is, not driving the thickness variance outward.

I haven't loaded this latest batch of brass yet. Later today or tomorrow. I'll try and remember to give the results.

Earlier R/O's have been in the .001-.003" range with a few as much as .005".

I know that the expander is contacting the inside of the case and is expanding. Measurements of ID before and after show this to be the case.

Yesterday I loaded up this batch. I found that the bullet runout follwed exactly that of the final case neck runout. Cases that were near perfect yielded max of .0005" runout. Those that were closer to .001" gave me bullet runouts slightly higher but in no case more than .0015". Bullets were 175 gr SMK's.

Can't wait until tomorrow morning. Forecast at the range is for 50 degrees, 80% Humidity, and wind of less than 2 mph. Cool enough to keep the crowd down and calm enough to see what the loads can do without having to worry about wind. (at this range wind doesn't come from only one direction, it's swirls badly. Round and round and up over the berms at each target line).

 

[amlevin]

amlevin and BoydAllen

Your both forcing me to get a better runout gauge, all I have is the RCBS Case Mastering Gauge. And the V-blocks are effected by finger pressure and dance all over the place. Add that to all the coffee I drink and my runout measurements look like a heart rate monitor and a patient with tachycardia.

I use the same gauge. I merely hold the case down with one finger pressing straight into the v-blocks and turn with thumb/forefinger on other hand. Also helps if I don't clean the outside lube off the cases until after measuring loaded runout. The small amount left makes the case turn nice and smooth. I wipe them down real well before putting them in my range box.

 

[amlevin]

I cut the bottom 15 thou off of my sleeves in a lathe.

I don't have a lathe and the sleeve is too big to chuck in a drill, all I have left is a bench grinder but I'm having visions of the sleeve turning blue and smoking.

So what other primitive method would you advise for a ill equipped home project. I'm retired now and no longer have access to our shop equipment and most of it was too big to fit in my pocket before I retired. :

It won't turn blue and smoke if you're patient. Don't press too hard against the wheel and even consider dipping in cold water between passes.

I've sharpened a lot of tools over the years and the key word is patience. Put the sleeve on the rest at the side of the wheel, start rotating it in your fingers, and press lightly against the wheel while continuing to rotate. You don't need to take off a huge amount as I see it, just enough to clear the case under a variety of cases.

I checked my forster seater sleeve and it just has daylight under it when the case is fully inserted and bullet seated. I'm going to just remove a few more thou's to allow for case variations. I'll do my best to keep it even but since I'm the only one that will see it, I'm not too worried bout finishing it with a 60-80 micro-inch surface. 8)

 

[bigedp51]

amlevin

Your thread has forked off into modifying seating dies, would you prefer if it was in a separate thread. I don't want to have a foul called for pass interference and deflecting the "football".

Its your thread and your call.

You posted while I was writing the above, and I just read your above posting and you are hijacking your own thread. I'm going to a AR15 forum where you don't have to be polite to forum members and are allowed to kick people in the groin.

 

[stubbicatt]

Thanks Catshooter... Good idea. Gotta go move some vintage motorcycles out of the way of the cabinets and do this very thing.

 

[BoydAllen]

While we are off topic, Sinclair concentricity gauge for cases, H&H for loaded with the capability of straightening. I have tried a number, and own several different. of those that support the case in two places, the Sinclair bearing balls have the least friction of all that I have tried. If you want to cut down on reading problems caused by the joint in your index finger, get a long hard rubber eraser, and roll the case with it. or pull a length of surgical tubing over s round rod of some sort and roll the case with that. Different loaded round support designs give different readings. That does not mean that any of them are wrong.

 

[Pappy42]

Dang, I'm amazed and astonished at what you fellers come up with.

As far as taking a few thou off of a hardened sleeve; I just stone it off.

 

[savageshooter86]

so the measurement of seating dies with the sleeves to check for clearance is with a sized case only or one with a bullet ? May check this with my Whidden and Forster seaters

 

[CatShooter]

so the measurement of seating dies with the sleeves to check for clearance is with a sized case only or one with a bullet ? May check this with my Whidden and Forster seaters

Use a sized case - when you put the case in the sleeve, and then slip a shell holder over the case head, you should see "Daylight" between the shell holder and the sleeve

 

[bigedp51]

The top end of my Forster sleeve is rough and I'm a little reluctant to trust it centering the case. I used a felt marker on the shoulder and spun two cases by hand inside the sleeve. The top photo is a case FL resized in a Lee die and the bottom photo is from a FL RCBS die. The dies make a difference in the contact points BUT the case sized in the RCBS die has flakes brass around the top mark nearest the neck. There is a bur inside the sleeve eating the brass, and it could effect case alignment, suggestions?

Below Lee .223 FL die

Below RCBS FL .223 die with flakes of brass near the neck.

The above Federal cases are once fired range pickup brass, I resized them and were just used for this test. BUT the resizing die can make a difference and I also have a Forster busing die and a small base RCBS die that were not checked for contact.

 

[CatShooter]

As to modifying seating sleeves; all is fine and dandy if your brass has equal headspace/shoulder. If you have variance in the headspace/shoulder your seating depths will also very, when the case is pushing the sleeve verses the shell holder. There are pro's and con's to both ways.

My 2-cents
Donovan

If your cases don't have the same headspace (??), why are you worried about it?... they are either new, or from other guns and they won't be accurate until they are fired and fit the chamber anyway.

 

[CatShooter]

"... suggestions?"

Send them back with a case marked like you have done. I had a Redding body die that had the same problem (it comes from a chipped reamer), and it was replaced, with apologizes.

 

[BoydAllen]

The seating depth is controlled by the distance from the surface in the shell holder that the case sits on to the seating stem in the die. The sleeve has nothing to do with it at all, its function is to align the case before the bullet is seated. Shortening the sleeve allows the case to find a closer fit at the top of the sleeve, where the shoulder makes contact, so that it is better centered as the bullet is seated.

 

[bigedp51]

"... suggestions?"

Send them back with a case marked like you have done. I had a Redding body die that had the same problem (it comes from a chipped reamer), and it was replaced, with apologizes.

catshooter

The marks on the neck are from the Forster seating sleeve that we are discussing making shorter. The sleeve is rough at the top end and I do not trust the sleeve to center a case if I shorten the sleeve.

 

[bigedp51]

The seating depth is controlled by the distance from the surface in the shell holder that the case sits on to the seating stem in the die. The sleeve has nothing to do with it at all, its function is to align the case before the bullet is seated. Shortening the sleeve allows the case to find a closer fit at the top of the sleeve, where the shoulder makes contact, so that it is better centered as the bullet is seated.

And if the sleeve has a bur/lump that pushes the case off center what do you have then. The sleeve is eating my brass when rotated in the sleeve and this high spot is shaving brass. This high spot isn't going to help center my cases in the sleeve if the sleeve is shortened.

These two cases were resized in two different FL dies to show die variations in shoulders and the contact points inside the sleeve. dmoran has made a good point, I have two AR15s and a Bolt action .223 and several types and makes of dies. I do not believe shortening my Froster seating sleeve will give better alignment with a bur, lump, pimple, ding, defect at the neck juncture of the sleeve.