Would you like to see smaller f open targets?

[dcali]

We've tried a couple different center options, but nothing has worked as well as cut down full size targets, which is a pain to make and you can't paste them up in the middle of a string without disrupting the shooting. Are the stick on ones the same paper as the regulation targets? we had issues with glare/color and the way the holes punched through (the spotter placement wasn't as good) on a different kind of paper.

Stick-on 10 rings would solve a lot of these issues very simply provided they match the real targets.

And yeah, 300 yards is sort of a lost cause. You really need multiple center targets to make that make sense.

 

[kohai133]

Falfan2017 stated "Yes. At the club I shoot at the winner in 600 and 1000 yard f class is frequently decided by x count with a score in the 598-600 range and 45+ x. I just think hitting the x should be a fun and special shot and not one you have to hit every time to win."

I went back on Bar-3's Facebook (awesome page and looks like a great range!) as far back as the Apr 28th match and compiled stats through current. I have sorted these by Score, X's, Division and Date see attached top 20 scores. Of the 245 match entries during this time only once did the top score for first place in FO require the X count to break the tie, see 23-Jun for the 595-31X & 25X split. The other tie breaker in the top 10% of scores shot was for 3rd place, in FO again, for a pair of 596's with 36x & 33x split. At this range there have been 4 people record 600's, 2 in FO and 2 in Prone, three of which were for 600 yard matches.

I will say this range has some great shooters as the top 10% of the scores are 594 and above.

Until F-Class is back to having 10 plus people at a national championship participate in a shoot off due to an unbreakable tie per the current NRA tie breaking rules, ain't nothing broke and leave it alone.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[Puzzaz01]

Changing the size of the targets isnt going to change who wins Nor will it prevent the centers from getting shot out! The only benefit for the complainers is the scores maybe slightly lower / but probably not. The high masters have that designation for a reason.

Darrin

 

[ljmontano]

Keep it simple keep the same targets change the scoring. All rounds that strike the line are scored at a lower score. Either your in or out.

 

[Puzzaz01]

Keep it simple keep the same targets change the scoring. All rounds that strike the line are scored at a lower score. Either your in or out.

Now that could work.

Darrin

 

[dcali]

You also get results like this, however. 600-39X was not good enough not make the podium. It's rare now, but if we keep seeing improvemnets, those 600-50X scores could very well turn into 600-60X. Perhaps it will drive people to proper F class - TR

http://www.nebraskafclass.com/results/2016/2016-08-27.pdf

 

[kohai133]

Keep it simple keep the same targets change the scoring. All rounds that strike the line are scored at a lower score. Either your in or out.

If we go this way then a new set of records will have to be tracked. At least F-Class. Records scores would be like comparing apples to oranges. Not feasible.

 

[kohai133]

Perhaps it will drive people to proper F class - TR

Or ditch all the crutches and shoot Palma rifles.

 

[R8e8tion]

I have no desire to shoot where it’s just pull the trigger. Give me a range with 2-3 minute switches very fast. Work for your score. A hard fought 588 score on a tough range will always be better than a trigger pulling match.
You become a much better shooter shooting in the wind that tests you as a shooter.

Speaking of egos, thanks for sparing us yours.

 

[R8e8tion]

Keep it simple keep the same targets change the scoring. All rounds that strike the line are scored at a lower score. Either your in or out.

Scores and X counts would be dropping all over.

 

[Steve Blair]

Or ditch all the crutches and shoot Palma rifles.

Does that include ditching slings, coats, gloves and fancy sights with lenses? F-TR is probably as close to modern military shooting as Palma. All current shooting disciplines involve impractical aspects, some more than others.

 

[kohai133]

Does that include ditching slings, coats, gloves and fancy sights with lenses? F-TR is probably as close to modern military shooting as Palma. All current shooting disciplines involve impractical aspects, some more than others.

Touché. However I am still not sold on lenses in iron sights. I have to wear prescription glasses so the one in the rear sight is pointless. As for the front... it just makes it a bigger fuzzy ball.

 

[Rope2horns]

You also get results like this, however. 600-39X was not good enough not make the podium. It's rare now, but if we keep seeing improvemnets, those 600-50X scores could very well turn into 600-60X. Perhaps it will drive people to proper F class - TR

http://www.nebraskafclass.com/results/2016/2016-08-27.pdf

Yeah but 600-39x was good enough to get a extra nice Ruger hat.

@R8e8tion did you shoot this match?

 

[pat fulghum]

Back to the subject at hand...Smaller f class for mid range

I think that LR is just fine, but something needs to give at f class mid range around here (Seattle). Every match I’ve gone to was won with a clean with at least 80% X count.

A 600-40x might get you an honorable mention that’s it.

It’s a great place to do load development and to learn to read the wind without to much movement.

The weather isn’t too tricky at the ranges around here.

 

[DE-F-Open]

Some points to think about.
We changed from the 2 moa 10 ring to the 1 moa in 2007, I believe while keeping the target black the same as our parent sport, HP sling. While a lot of cleans have been shot at shorter ranges (especially 300 yd) I don’t think it is time to change targets yet. When most shooters start cleaning the X ring then it would be time to consider a smaller target. No one has yet cleaned a range aggregate (600-60x) at any range in a registered match. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

The constant all ten’s cleans would go away in many cases if the 7 second rule was made mandatory for electronic target. This needs to be done ASAP. FC is not BR and the custom of having a target pulled and marked needs to remain in the sport. Why should people shooting on ET’s have an advantage record wise over those that don’t? The HP committee needs to change this now!

If you reduced the targets to ½ moa tens etc., think about how hard it would be to score & past 10’s & X’s.

People tend to forget what changing targets entails. The clubs would have to buy new faces (what happens to a stock pile of old targets?). The NRA would have to change the rule book & start tracking all new records. Heck they have enough trouble getting caught up now on records and rules!

As someone pointed out, come out west if you want the game to get harder. I was amazed when I went to the TX State LR near Houston this year. I and others shot more 200 cleans at 1k than I have ever seen. But I shoot mostly at tricky ranges.

___________

Agreed - as usual, Larry is correct in his analysis.

 

[Cakes]

It's a bit like any sport or activity where there is a winner and 2nd and 3rd and so-forth. All competitors want to improve...nature of history. I've also been a competitive runner for the last 40 years. Look what happened to say the "4 minute" mile and every other track & field record. Technology, nutrition, training regimes all improve. The "cat" is re-skinned every other year! Scores for Mid-range on the open side IMO have all improved over the years. Just like trap shooting. 40 years ago a 100 or 200 straight was a reallly big deal...now 200 gets you and 3-4 others into a shoot-out. 5 years ago 600's on the open side were quite rare. Now fairly common if conditions warrant. Say ...drop the weight down to 8kg and 42x for a maximum scope magnification. That would take our scores back a few years but wouldn't change who does the winning. Just my 2 cents. Eric in DL

 

[Lbart]

Eric,
Not a good idea IMHO. It is possible to change most any rule and get away with it. BUT, if you call for reducing the weight of 1 to 5 thousand dollar rifles it will cause a revolt. A wise man (an Olympic shooter) once told me to make rules hard when you first make them because it is easy to relax them, but it is bad when you try to tighten them. It tends to costs people M-O-N-E-Y.

Unfortunately the Canadians (God Bess them!) who are responsible for starting FC did not see fit have a weight limit. There was only one class ‘Open’ and F/TR was started years later. When the 1st international rules were developed I fought to have the weight limit put at 17 lbs so a 1k BR light gun class rifle could be used in both events. I lost the fight.

 

[lawman29]

First: Smaller target...NO!

Second: Only those individuals who shoot 600's are allowed to complain about how big the target is, how boring and ho hum it was to do it, that they really don't think that it was much of an accomplishment or in any way noteworthy, that the challenge is gone, that it was just another walk in the park...until then...until the 600 club proclaims this...I chose to ignore this babble....

 

[Bindi2]

I can tell you both Bob and Warren put in a lot of time at the range testing and practicing to shoot those scores. They are great shooters and their scores reflect that.
As for scoring rings being smaller it may come to that one day. Bullets have come a long way in the last couple years with higher B.C. and the equipment has become better also. Although You can't take anything away from the shooter because shooting consistent high master scores is an accomplishment in itself.

I do believe with electronic targets there needs to be a delay put in place and I think that would be a start in the right direction. I shoot prone in a sling now but started out shooting in f class and have seen open shooters complete there string and Im only three shots into my string. They get a condition and shoot them as quickly as possible. There's no waiting on the puller to mark the target and run it back up.

Don't put a delay in the E T system. It causes problems when there are crossfires.

 

[MattPeetz]

Go sh

Don't put a delay in the E T system. It causes problems when there are crossfires.

Go shoot benchrest then. There needs to be a delay. 10seconds minimum. 7 isn’t long enough.
No delay and the average shot is 4-5 seconds, that is not f class. Only trigger pulling which is benchrest. Nobody get their panties in wad from that statement but it’s fact.