Would you like to see smaller f open targets?

[swd]

You folks need ranges with much more wind! Come over to the Pacific Northwest in spring!

This^^^ Anywhere out West for that matter. May-October seperates the men from the boys out here. At last months LR match even state championship level shooters had a tough time shooting high 420's at LR.

 

[Immike]

I don't shoot F class however I hear of these high scores wondering what am I doing wrong.
I'm out west so at our local clubs (non registered matches) we shoot 600 yard 1.2 x ring 10 shots for record, quite a challenge it is "
We see good solid scores from many of the shooters one in particular averages around 87 points with a factory Savage 308!
The custom rigs shoot well into the mid to upper 90 with and occasional 100 point score.
For me, I like small
J

Hi Jim, you may have said more than you realize. The fclass targets are pretty challenging considering the length of the COFire. Many at the entry level find the match easy to get started in but hard to master... shooters success rate needs to be around 90% for a match to be exciting and that’s part of why it’s been a successful program...

 

[Fulvio]

It seems like it would be more interesting if f class matches were settled more often by score instead of just x count. Why is the f open target so much bigger than an ibs target? Like 600 yard bench with a 1.2" x

There is another way to score, when the electronic targets are widely used. Like at the Olympics, it is possible to use the decimal point. This means a pin wheel X is a perfect 10, then we go to 9.9, 9.8,... In this case, the most accurate shooter out of the 20 shots wins the match. The integer scoring system is (10, 9, 8,..) was used since humans cannot score to the decimal point. With the latest technology development, we should change our scoring system so no more settling by X count.

 

[Puzzaz01]

You folks need ranges with much more wind! Come over to the Pacific Northwest in spring!

Agreed!!!
Anyone that thinks we need to make the targets smaller needs to come out to the Pascagoula MS shooting club. We put out flags from 100-600 yds on the left and right sides of the range and the flags are all blowing different directions most of the time. You might have a minute or two with a steady 6-8 mph east to west wind and you better take it while it last.

Darrin

 

[Immike]

Well I certainly wasn't putting trying to discount F class by any means rather understanding the difference. What is the length of fire?
J

One minute per shot is allowed. Usually 3-4 relays with pit duties and scoring.

 

[JFrank]

Hi Jim, you may have said more than you realize. The fclass targets are pretty challenging considering the length of the COFire. Many at the entry level find the match easy to get started in but hard to master... shooters success rate needs to be around 90% for a match to be exciting and that’s part of why it’s been a successful program...

Very interesting topic I can appreciate the F Class discipline also becoming a master must take a long time.
J

 

[JCUtah]

Simple response is no. As a match director it's more work and I already have plenty along with my day job. Our range has not had a clean 600 @ 600 yds. We only have 5 targets so i would have to get creative with squadding. And the good news; we still have fun.

 

[sdean]

I think the appeal to Fclass is that you get to see where each shot hits. Then how you correct and guess the next shot.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

Recent match results.
6 out of the 9 f open shooters score over 590 with one f open at 600 and a prone guy at 600.

Your original post stated the matches were almost always decided by x count but in this score sheet every class was won by their score and not by x count. At 600 (MR) we do see quite a few clean scores but those are much harder to come by when moving back to 1,000 (LR) at least in the clubs where I shoot.

 

[rardoin]

Some points to think about.

The constant all ten’s cleans would go away in many cases if the 7 second rule was made mandatory for electronic target. This needs to be done ASAP. FC is not BR and the custom of having a target pulled and marked needs to remain in the sport. Why should people shooting on ET’s have an advantage record wise over those that don’t? The HP committee needs to change this now!

^^^^^
Yep!

Edit- I am in full agreement with Larry's statement above.

No, I don't think the time has come to reduce the scoring rings.

 

[Dgd6mm]

It seems like it would be more interesting if f class matches were settled more often by score instead of just x count. Why is the f open target so much bigger than an ibs target? Like 600 yard bench with a 1.2" x

A simple no.

 

[KWeigel]

It seems like it would be more interesting if f class matches were settled more often by score instead of just x count. Why is the f open target so much bigger than an ibs target? Like 600 yard bench with a 1.2" x

No

 

[sdean]

at the club I shoot at the winner in 600 and 1000 yard f class is frequently decided by x count with a score in the 598-600 range and 45+ x. I just think hitting the x should be a fun and special shot and not one you have to hit every time to win.[/QUOTE]


What would be most special to me would be to shoot 20x's.
I think there is a serious cash bounty on that at Laurel.

 

[Doug Beach]

Hi Jim, you may have said more than you realize. The fclass targets are pretty challenging considering the length of the COFire. Many at the entry level find the match easy to get started in but hard to master... shooters success rate needs to be around 90% for a match to be exciting and that’s part of why it’s been a successful program...

Please explain the part about a 90% success rate. 90% score, E.G. 540/600?

 

[Immike]

Please explain the part about a 90% success rate. 90% score, E.G. 540/600?

It simply refers to what attracts shooters. It’s a number we would strive for setting up novelty matches for NMLRA matches. If a coarse is too difficult then they avoid the match.

 

[memilanuk]

You folks need ranges with much more wind! Come over to the Pacific Northwest in spring!

Depends on *where* in the PNW. Pick somewhere *not* surrounded by trees, then yes.

In my experience... despite the supposed issue about the targets needing to be smaller because 'everyone' is shooting uber-high scores... you still see shooters flocking to the ranges that are conducive to those kinds of scores. Do they go to matches at ranges where the wind is a bit more on the... challenging... side, and maybe work on their wind reading? Generally speaking, no. Everyone wants their ego stroked by shooting a high score under bunny conditions; nobody wants to tough it out in the wide-open rough stuff and really 'earn' that high score. Might as well go shoot Benchrest at that point.

 

[dcali]

For most shooters, the targets are fine. For the better shooters, even at the local level, they're not. 600-45x is not something to write home about at 600 yards. I've personally witnessed a 200-24x. The x ring gets shredded by the top few guys. Making the rings smaller won't help because they'll just get shot out faster. E targets won't help because they're not accurate enough for tiny rings. The solution is really to shoot smaller relays - 10 shots, and use a benchrest target.

This of course fixes something that's not broken for TR, which is a problem. But if it looks like benchrest and quacks like benchrest, it's kind of benchrest.

 

[sdean]

"South Prairie jim, post: 37282874, member: 1307358"]I thought the wind would be the same despite sitting at a bench or shooting prone?[/QUOTE]


Two different disciplines. In benchrest you don't have to wait for the target to go up and down. These guys shooting 1 inch groups ain't taking 15 minutes to shoot them.

 

[Puzzaz01]

I thought the wind would be the same despite sitting at a bench or shooting prone?

It is the same. It's just like trap vs skeet, one says the other is for ametures and the other talks bad about the other. I shoot either or and they can both be challenging or they can beat you up, depending on numerous variables such as mirage, wind and how you're shooting that day.

Darrin

 

[Lbart]

South Prairie Jim,
The wind is the same for both BR & FC, however being closer to the ground the mirage would most likely be worse for FC. BR is shot within a set time limit and you can shoot as quick or as slow as YOU desire. FC has max time limits, but at least with manually pulled & marked targets you are delayed by a minimum of 7-15 seconds (sometimes longer) before the target comes up before you can fire again. This means you shot through more wind/mirage changes! ET’s can allow a person to shoot as fast as a BR shooter, this is why we should have a mandatory time delay built in. Another factor in the USA is we normally shoot 15 or 20 shot strings; most often 20 shots, while BR shoots 5 or 10.