The only wind flags I've ever used have propellors at one end and a vane & tail at the other. Never have used the type that have a 2-colored ball instead of the propellor. Frankly, I've never found the propellor to be particularly helpful since it spins into a blur at almost any wind velocity above dead still. I'm considering trying the ball, which I suspect might be easier to read. What do you think?
Wind Flag Types
- Thread starter Lesloan
- Start date
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a set of Hood flags with all of the options, std. vanes, big vanes, daisy wheel, or counterweight. Although I do not have bi-colored balls I can speak to the propeller, or no propeller issue. FOR ME simpler is better. I prefer without. I look at the vanes (twin vane flags) for wind angle and the ribbon for speed. Some years back, I did testing of all of the configurations for sensitivity. What I ended up with is the standard vanes and extending the smaller weight that is used with the daisy wheels far enough forward to balance the flags. I would put out two different configurations and see which one turned first on a wind change, and then test the winner against another version. One thing that I have run onto that makes sense to me is incorporating cheap ball heads on the tops of the stands so that no matter what the ground angle is, the pivot can be plumbed. In a couple of instances where I have helped new shooters get set up, including flags and stands, I have pointed them at Graham flags, and they have continued to use them with no complaints. One friend, who has his own range in Illinois leaves them in place year round.
Garden daisies are heavy and slow to stop and start. They also do a poor job of indicating speed or angle.
There are much better options, most of which are the multi-colored daisy or pinwheels. I prefer the pinwheels over daisy designs for a number of reasons but one is that they don't influence the vane response as they don't "blow" backward. The multi colored pinwheels are great at showing slight angle changes that eat us up at times. Hard to describe but, lets say you have a green/orange pinwheel and you're shooting a direct crosswind. As it spins into a blur, it will appear to be essentially 50/50 green at the top or bottom, but any angle change creates a different percentage of green vs orange. This is a huge benefit of some flags that simply gets overlooked by some. But if you train yourself to watch for it, it's a great big plus!
My flags use a pinwheel that just churns slowly at about the same wind speed that will make surveyor tape wiggle. So, they offer a very sensitive response in very light conditions but offer a view of very slight angle changes in more typical shooting conditions. This is something that most flags struggle with. Dual vane flags do the same thing but are slow to respond due to weight and they transport terribly.
Ultimately, you have to spend time with any flags...there are no shortcuts to that. The very best flag can only show what has already happened, so a flag that is very sensitive will be closer to real time.
A little math....A 10mph solid wind is traveling at roughly 14.6 feet per second across the range. Think about that! A switch that hits a flag 15ft to your left will be in front of you in 1 second...MINUS HIS FLAG'S REACTION TIME. Yes, sensitive flags are important and this shows just why. I've seen all sorts of flags, both commercial and home made...Many times, a good flag will turn wayyy before the one to your left does..for example.
We pretty much all agree that wind reading is maybe the biggest factor in who wins and loses br matches. We spend thousands of dollars in other areas but some skimp on flags. Where are you gonna find a bigger difference for the price difference, between good flags and something else? How many points did your scores go up or how much did your groups shrink when you bought that $1500 front rest?--Mike
There are much better options, most of which are the multi-colored daisy or pinwheels. I prefer the pinwheels over daisy designs for a number of reasons but one is that they don't influence the vane response as they don't "blow" backward. The multi colored pinwheels are great at showing slight angle changes that eat us up at times. Hard to describe but, lets say you have a green/orange pinwheel and you're shooting a direct crosswind. As it spins into a blur, it will appear to be essentially 50/50 green at the top or bottom, but any angle change creates a different percentage of green vs orange. This is a huge benefit of some flags that simply gets overlooked by some. But if you train yourself to watch for it, it's a great big plus!
My flags use a pinwheel that just churns slowly at about the same wind speed that will make surveyor tape wiggle. So, they offer a very sensitive response in very light conditions but offer a view of very slight angle changes in more typical shooting conditions. This is something that most flags struggle with. Dual vane flags do the same thing but are slow to respond due to weight and they transport terribly.
Ultimately, you have to spend time with any flags...there are no shortcuts to that. The very best flag can only show what has already happened, so a flag that is very sensitive will be closer to real time.
A little math....A 10mph solid wind is traveling at roughly 14.6 feet per second across the range. Think about that! A switch that hits a flag 15ft to your left will be in front of you in 1 second...MINUS HIS FLAG'S REACTION TIME. Yes, sensitive flags are important and this shows just why. I've seen all sorts of flags, both commercial and home made...Many times, a good flag will turn wayyy before the one to your left does..for example.
We pretty much all agree that wind reading is maybe the biggest factor in who wins and loses br matches. We spend thousands of dollars in other areas but some skimp on flags. Where are you gonna find a bigger difference for the price difference, between good flags and something else? How many points did your scores go up or how much did your groups shrink when you bought that $1500 front rest?--Mike
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I'm sorry you feel that way Johnny. They came with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. I wish you had sent them back so I could make you happy but I haven't made that exact flag in a while now...I'm guessing about 6 years or so. I want to take care of you but I hope you can understand after several years now.
I started making flags in 2011 and have always offered a 100% satisfaction guarantee on them. I've sold a bunch and have never been taken up on that policy, which speaks clearly about the quality of them. That said, I understand that we all have our own reasons for liking something or not and I would have gladly refunded you full purchase price on them if you had asked.
This could be a simple fix though. I set my flags so that the last flag or two at 200 are in the scope. Those are the easiest two flags to see that way. Rules allow flags to be set so that they are not above a line from the top of the bench to the bottom of the target. Regardless of size, or whose flags I'm shooting over, I want to have as much/many flags in the scope as possible.
In my opinion Mike is right with regard to flags. The lighter well designed flags are quicker to respond. I prefer no propellers as those flags are lighter. At the time when we decided to build our own flags we did some very scientific research and found the propellers, especially the heavier ones, tended to influence the flags directional response through gyroscopic action. Well, it wasn’t so scientific; we don’t do that stuff. But also, don’t read just your flags. Be aware of what is going on around you and loo at the other guy’s flags For a condition before it gets to your lane. We use flags originally designed and built by Jim Boettcher who was a pilot and very aware of the consequences of wind. We spoke to Jim and built his type of flag with his blessing.
JMayo
Silver $$ Contributor
You're a good Man !
I should have made the phrase " with my eyes" and the fact that the last 2 ARE seen through the scope. If I turn the scope down I can see the others in field.
So you can't take on the issues outside of the craftsmanship. These 6-7 yr old flags have spun trillions & billions of time.
If you could take the "LIE" out of em I'd kiss you !
I haven't figured out how to make them 100% honest. All flags lie, it seems. Lol!
I agree about the gyroscopic effect too. Similar story with my design. A good friend that is an aeronautical engineering helped me design them.
There's a lot of valuable info in the above responses, and I thank everybody for taking the time to respond. Obviously you all know a lot more about wind flag usage than I do. But it seems that nobody has anything to say about the bi-colored ball option. It seems to me that this type would be more helpful in reading wind direction than any propellor/daisywheel option, but I have no experience to back this up, so I could definitely be wrong. Anybody have input on the ball itself?
I think you have feedback in that most replies are nudging you away from a ball for that reason. If I thought a ball was better, I'd make my flags that way. Of course, not everyone will agree with anything, so you have to test for yourself, ultimately. Both have their pros and cons and somewhat comes down to personal preference. Both styles have their supporters.
You're right, of course. I would just like to hear from somebody who actually uses (or has used) the ball type.
JMayo
Silver $$ Contributor
What I see about the ball is that i dont confuse the direction as easy, it is split in color and if pointed directly away or towards you it is easier to tell the front from the rear maybe cause the vain is so big.
Some have double veins. I really like them but they are Harder to keep nice while storing them IMO.
The speed of the daisy wheel tells allot. imo, a wind blowing at you is said to make bullets go down ...i have found it depends on the speed of that wind. A slow wind will make it go up. The sail tails i have on mine show up and down drafts better than the survey tape IMO.
Sometimes its the first two that seem to be telling the truth and sometimes its the last two.......
Oh yeah that B%^&@ in the middle does its own thing allot ..... Fun Fun Fun !
This part of reading flags are full of opinions and i have plenty and they change about like the wind so dont hold me to being "Good" at reading them !
And if you can’t figure if the wind is blowing in or out wait a second, it will change.
Twice, around here. Lol! Wind is always switching, it seems.
My local range has a bunch of the old school daisy wheels and now about a dozen ball type. Out of these i prefer the ball type as they react quicker. The only thing i like about some of the old type daisy wheel is the noise , if they get loud i know the wind has gotten pretty strong. Now the newer wheel type like the Ezell i wouldnt mind trying but my budget wont allow it at the moment . Im currently using two Graham flags and wouldnt mind a couple of Mike's flags to go along with them once the budget allows .
I shot over Jackie Schmidt’s flags in Rachel’s Glen a few years ago. He had made his own propellers complete with ball bearings. They responded quickly but I think if you opened his case today they would still be spinning. The Eveready Bunny spinners, I called them.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
The first pinwheels that I saw were on the BRT flags from Australia. I sold several hundred of them. The advantage to them are instant response either picking up a wind or stopping like they have a brake. The daises take a while to respond to a pickup and continue to flywheel away. I use the pinwheels to see a pickup or letoff, but the tails tell the tale of speed.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Heres a typical wind flag arrangement at a benchrest match. 99.8% daisy wheels keeping the wind blowing. Shooters know to use the daisys for angle and speed but use tails for letups and pickups. 
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