Win 284 - can't reach 2800 with H4831SC without ejector marks

[Keith Glasscock]

@pat fulghum

Where I was leading was the concept of false pressure signs.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to run a brass life test at the 2850ish velocity. It would only cost one piece of brass, and you can use that funky one that doesn't look like the rest...

 

[pat fulghum]

@Keith Glasscock ,

I do not think it is false signs as i did actually "tear" the base (a very visible burr that will cut your finger) on that 50.4 gr H4350

 

[dskogman]

51.0 to 51.6g depending on the barrel, 2820-2850 fps

 

[RonAKA]

I think the only thing a bit suspicious about your load is that you are reaching max pressure at 54.6 grains. Hodgdon shows a max of 57C grains of H4831 with the 175 grain. And, they are generally fairly conservative. Sounds like QuickLoad is telling you the same. About all I can think of is seating depth in the case. Where is the bottom of the bearing surface and the base of the boat tail relative to the top of the shoulder? Perhaps the throat is not long enough for this bullet?

 

[Raptor]

Nowind0, I am using WW brass. I also shoot the 162ELDs and use H4350. I was only suggesting that the poster try a slower powder if he wanted to go faster. Sometimes this will help. I have not really found that the Kreigers are slower but I am sure everyone will run across a slow one once in awhile. My concern is not so much how fast they go but how accurately they get there......

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I would want to know when you start to get heavy bolt lift. Its normally very close to where you get extractor marks. .284 brass with it rebated rim seems to show pressure signs earlier. Also, sharp edges around the ejector hole can show early sign. I use bolt lift as my main pressure indicator.

 

[Ringostar]

Have you checked your bullet seating from the rifling after shooting some rounds? You might have gotten false measurements to start. It sounds like bullets seated deeper and reducing capacity. I know many shooters using 55.4-55.5 of 4831sc without pressure. And without as much freebore as you claim.

 

[pat fulghum]

I used Alex Wheeler method to determine where the land are...

From that I reduce bullet seater .015.
I keep 2 cases and 2 bullets throughtout the life of the barrel so I can measure erosion. At 200 rounds I had just over .001 erosion.

Round chambers easily, and when removed no rifling marks.... but If I do load it .020 longer, there are very slight rifling marks.... So I'm pretty sure I'm .015 off the lands.

Looking at Quickload , with 51gr H4350 (uncalibrated) with Catridge Length of 3.245 (Bullet is 1.510, Capacity is 67.8 gr H2o)... it shows 54,306 psi. Which is my load.
If I load it .045 shorter @3.200 COL, pressure raises to 55,500.. just 1000 psi more.
If I load it .045 longer @3.290 COL, pressure drops to 53,166.

But I can't go longer due to freebore.

 

[RonAKA]

But I can't go longer due to freebore.

Perhaps you do not have enough freebore. It can easily be increased with a throating reamer.

 

[ronemus]

I second the recommendation for Reloder 17. I shoot the 162 gr A-Max from a 22" barrel at 2930 fps. It will easily make the velocities you're after, and accuracy has been sub-MOA (usually ~0.5). I have 5x fired Winchester brass that shows no signs of deterioration. Reloder 17 is really as good as the ads claim, and it is especially good in the .284 with heavy bullets.

 

[pcrowe]

I second the recommendation for Reloder 17. I shoot the 162 gr A-Max from a 22" barrel at 2930 fps. It will easily make the velocities you're after, and accuracy has been sub-MOA (usually ~0.5). I have 5x fired Winchester brass that shows no signs of deterioration. Reloder 17 is really as good as the ads claim, and it is especially good in the .284 with heavy bullets.

 

[Nowind0]

Nowind0, I am using WW brass. I also shoot the 162ELDs and use H4350. I was only suggesting that the poster try a slower powder if he wanted to go faster. Sometimes this will help. I have not really found that the Kreigers are slower but I am sure everyone will run across a slow one once in awhile. My concern is not so much how fast they go but how accurately they get there......

Raptor, My question and comment was in no way tied to your comment. I understand your comment and have nothing contrary or to add to it. Sorry if you took offense to it, that is not my intention.

 

[Raptor]

Oh Hell no!! No offence taken and didn't even think about it that way!! I just thought maybe you thought I was using those powders in mine and I wanted to clarify that I was actually shooting H4350 and 162s. Sorry for any confusion!!!

 

[STOMP442]

Just round up. What did we learn all that math in grade school for if we never use it.

 

[BradY]

What chrony are you using?

 

[Bart B.]

Virtually all cartridge brass starts extruding into bolt face cutouts at about 65,000 cup, 80,000 psi inside the case.

284 Win SAAMI specs are 54,000 cup, 56,000 psi; maximum.

 

[pat fulghum]

What chrony are you using?

LabRadar.
At one time 3 of us put our labradar on the same bullet to see the chrono to chrono variance... All 3 radars (on 3 different channels) would report the same value +-3fps... So I do trust the chrono

 

[pat fulghum]

One thing I found out last night is the my bore is significantly tighter than another shooter's Brux barrels.

For example, the other very experienced shooter is always able to put a dry 1.5" round patch down his dirty barrel without much resistance.

What I have found with this barrel, is that the first few patches must be wet, or the patch will get stuck requiring much force to get it out.

After 250 rounds, I have got a little speedup, my 54.6gr H4831SC round is just shy of 2800 fps without ejector marks.

 

[jawjaboy]

After 250 rounds, I have got a little speedup, my 54.6gr H4831SC round is just shy of 2800 fps without ejector marks.

Your's is faster than my brux 30" straight 284 with SMK 183s and H4831 or H4831SC. I'm at 2714 fps with 54.4 gr.

Oehler 35p

 

[Jay Christopherson]

One thing I found out last night is the my bore is significantly tighter than another shooter's Brux barrels.

For example, the other very experienced shooter is always able to put a dry 1.5" round patch down his dirty barrel without much resistance.

What I have found with this barrel, is that the first few patches must be wet, or the patch will get stuck requiring much force to get it out.

After 250 rounds, I have got a little speedup, my 54.6gr H4831SC round is just shy of 2800 fps without ejector marks.

"significantly tighter" is understating the case... I think I broke my finger trying to remove that stuck patch/jag.